1
00:00:00,250 --> 00:00:02,629
[Music]

2
00:00:06,309 --> 00:00:04,470
what's up guys ryan sprague here and i'm

3
00:00:07,829 --> 00:00:06,319
just dropping in to remind you about our

4
00:00:09,750 --> 00:00:07,839
patreon campaign

5
00:00:11,910 --> 00:00:09,760
somewhere in the skies is always free to

6
00:00:13,270 --> 00:00:11,920
consume but it's not free to create

7
00:00:16,070 --> 00:00:13,280
so if you want to help the show on a

8
00:00:18,390 --> 00:00:16,080
monthly basis we have tons of rewards

9
00:00:20,070 --> 00:00:18,400
for you in return including shout outs

10
00:00:22,870 --> 00:00:20,080
on the show and website

11
00:00:23,670 --> 00:00:22,880
bonus content and episodes and free

12
00:00:25,990 --> 00:00:23,680
merch

13
00:00:26,790 --> 00:00:26,000
want to be my guest or pick a topic for

14
00:00:28,950 --> 00:00:26,800
the show

15
00:00:31,029 --> 00:00:28,960
you can do that too so if you'd like to

16
00:00:34,470 --> 00:00:31,039
learn more and to help support the show

17
00:00:36,390 --> 00:00:34,480
visit patreon.com summerskies

18
00:00:39,750 --> 00:00:36,400
thank you and keep looking up

19
00:00:45,190 --> 00:00:42,229
today on the show author researcher and

20
00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:45,200
investigator for the singular 14 society

21
00:00:56,310 --> 00:00:46,730
tobias weyland

22
00:01:10,830 --> 00:00:59,490
this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

23
00:01:12,250 --> 00:01:10,840
[Music]

24
00:01:18,710 --> 00:01:12,260
sprague

25
00:01:21,109 --> 00:01:18,720
[Music]

26
00:01:22,630 --> 00:01:21,119
tobias welcome for the very first time

27
00:01:24,550 --> 00:01:22,640
just somewhere in the skies

28
00:01:26,310 --> 00:01:24,560
thank you so much for for having me i'm

29
00:01:28,870 --> 00:01:26,320
a big fan and uh

30
00:01:30,550 --> 00:01:28,880
you know i i couldn't wait to be on well

31
00:01:31,510 --> 00:01:30,560
thank you and i know this has been a

32
00:01:32,950 --> 00:01:31,520
long time

33
00:01:34,710 --> 00:01:32,960
in the making i was going to have yon

34
00:01:37,350 --> 00:01:34,720
when you came out with your first book

35
00:01:39,590 --> 00:01:37,360
uh the lake michigan mothman but we uh

36
00:01:41,510 --> 00:01:39,600
i'm so happy that now you have another

37
00:01:43,910 --> 00:01:41,520
book out so we get to cover more

38
00:01:45,590 --> 00:01:43,920
than just the mothman tonight which i

39
00:01:47,030 --> 00:01:45,600
might add i wore this t-shirt

40
00:01:48,830 --> 00:01:47,040
specifically for you man

41
00:01:51,030 --> 00:01:48,840
and i've got my uh i've got my

42
00:01:53,510 --> 00:01:51,040
machupacabras in the background too

43
00:01:56,149 --> 00:01:53,520
i'm a ufo guy man so we're stepping out

44
00:01:58,389 --> 00:01:56,159
of my territory tonight a little bit but

45
00:02:00,469 --> 00:01:58,399
i'm excited i i think our listeners are

46
00:02:04,069 --> 00:02:00,479
really going to enjoy this one because

47
00:02:06,389 --> 00:02:04,079
uh you have been investigating all types

48
00:02:07,670 --> 00:02:06,399
of things like you know i'm a ufologist

49
00:02:10,550 --> 00:02:07,680
you've got people who

50
00:02:11,110 --> 00:02:10,560
just look at bigfoot or just hunt ghosts

51
00:02:13,430 --> 00:02:11,120
but

52
00:02:14,550 --> 00:02:13,440
uh over at the singular 14 society you

53
00:02:18,070 --> 00:02:14,560
guys are doing

54
00:02:21,030 --> 00:02:18,080
everything so um i guess kind of my

55
00:02:23,589 --> 00:02:21,040
my first question for all first time

56
00:02:25,510 --> 00:02:23,599
guests is how did you get interested

57
00:02:26,790 --> 00:02:25,520
in all of this stuff like what first got

58
00:02:29,510 --> 00:02:26,800
you interested in the

59
00:02:31,509 --> 00:02:29,520
the unexplained and in the 14 which is

60
00:02:33,430 --> 00:02:31,519
another question we'll get to but um

61
00:02:35,990 --> 00:02:33,440
yeah man where did this all start for

62
00:02:38,150 --> 00:02:36,000
you sure you know honestly i like to

63
00:02:40,710 --> 00:02:38,160
tell people that if it hadn't been

64
00:02:42,470 --> 00:02:40,720
for uh experiences that started in in my

65
00:02:44,470 --> 00:02:42,480
early childhood i probably would have

66
00:02:47,509 --> 00:02:44,480
been a relatively normal if

67
00:02:48,309 --> 00:02:47,519
pretty nerdy guy but you know ever since

68
00:02:51,509 --> 00:02:48,319
i was a

69
00:02:54,710 --> 00:02:51,519
little kid you know i i have had these

70
00:02:57,830 --> 00:02:54,720
experiences and i i can't explain them

71
00:03:00,869 --> 00:02:57,840
and uh they they sort of cross

72
00:03:03,190 --> 00:03:00,879
the uh the the boundaries between

73
00:03:05,670 --> 00:03:03,200
phenomena so they're not easily sort of

74
00:03:08,390 --> 00:03:05,680
a pigeon holed into one particular

75
00:03:10,550 --> 00:03:08,400
aspect of of uh strangeness you know

76
00:03:11,589 --> 00:03:10,560
i remember some of my earliest memories

77
00:03:14,470 --> 00:03:11,599
honestly as a

78
00:03:16,869 --> 00:03:14,480
a kid are just being terrified to to go

79
00:03:19,910 --> 00:03:16,879
to bed because i knew when i did

80
00:03:22,229 --> 00:03:19,920
that something was was coming for me and

81
00:03:23,030 --> 00:03:22,239
and it happened fairly regularly i mean

82
00:03:25,270 --> 00:03:23,040
i'm talking as

83
00:03:27,589 --> 00:03:25,280
as as young as you know two or three

84
00:03:30,630 --> 00:03:27,599
years old my earliest memories

85
00:03:32,390 --> 00:03:30,640
are of you know things uh poking my my

86
00:03:34,229 --> 00:03:32,400
sides while i'm in bed or the feeling of

87
00:03:35,830 --> 00:03:34,239
like hands trying to get underneath me

88
00:03:38,149 --> 00:03:35,840
to to lift me up or

89
00:03:39,990 --> 00:03:38,159
having the the covers pulled over my my

90
00:03:43,670 --> 00:03:40,000
my head in front and and

91
00:03:46,470 --> 00:03:43,680
seeing hands oppressing from the outside

92
00:03:47,509 --> 00:03:46,480
and and of course as i aged uh the the

93
00:03:49,270 --> 00:03:47,519
the experiences

94
00:03:50,869 --> 00:03:49,280
um well probably not more developed

95
00:03:54,070 --> 00:03:50,879
certainly like my mind was more

96
00:03:56,949 --> 00:03:54,080
developed and so my my memories of the

97
00:03:57,670 --> 00:03:56,959
the uh events as they progressed are are

98
00:04:00,630 --> 00:03:57,680
clearer

99
00:04:01,110 --> 00:04:00,640
um but uh yeah it really involved a lot

100
00:04:03,830 --> 00:04:01,120
of

101
00:04:04,470 --> 00:04:03,840
nighttime visitation uh seeing shadow

102
00:04:07,910 --> 00:04:04,480
people

103
00:04:11,110 --> 00:04:07,920
um you know uh receiving

104
00:04:13,750 --> 00:04:11,120
weird messages uh uh thing

105
00:04:15,030 --> 00:04:13,760
things like that and so you know i i'm

106
00:04:16,469 --> 00:04:15,040
old enough that when i was a little kid

107
00:04:18,069 --> 00:04:16,479
of course like there wasn't any any

108
00:04:20,789 --> 00:04:18,079
internet or anything

109
00:04:22,469 --> 00:04:20,799
and so i couldn't really turn to my uh

110
00:04:23,830 --> 00:04:22,479
my family like they're they're

111
00:04:25,830 --> 00:04:23,840
they're great they're they're great

112
00:04:29,990 --> 00:04:25,840
people but at that time especially as

113
00:04:33,270 --> 00:04:30,000
as a child they weren't really prepared

114
00:04:34,710 --> 00:04:33,280
to deal with those experiences and so

115
00:04:38,230 --> 00:04:34,720
they were largely written off

116
00:04:39,670 --> 00:04:38,240
as uh as as a child's imagination and

117
00:04:42,469 --> 00:04:39,680
then you know by the time i was

118
00:04:44,390 --> 00:04:42,479
i was old enough i think to have my uh

119
00:04:45,990 --> 00:04:44,400
my folks take me seriously

120
00:04:47,510 --> 00:04:46,000
you know i was just dealing with it by

121
00:04:51,110 --> 00:04:47,520
myself um

122
00:04:53,670 --> 00:04:51,120
and so what i did was i was a

123
00:04:56,230 --> 00:04:53,680
voracious reader and and i would go to

124
00:04:59,350 --> 00:04:56,240
the library where i discovered books by

125
00:05:01,029 --> 00:04:59,360
you know people like uh whitley streamer

126
00:05:03,350 --> 00:05:01,039
and john keel

127
00:05:04,230 --> 00:05:03,360
brad steiger you know lauren coleman

128
00:05:07,749 --> 00:05:04,240
guys like that

129
00:05:10,710 --> 00:05:07,759
and uh and and i would read about

130
00:05:11,430 --> 00:05:10,720
these experiences that other people were

131
00:05:13,670 --> 00:05:11,440
having

132
00:05:15,590 --> 00:05:13,680
and a lot of them were very similar to

133
00:05:19,350 --> 00:05:15,600
the experiences i was having

134
00:05:21,029 --> 00:05:19,360
and so um that helped honestly just

135
00:05:22,390 --> 00:05:21,039
kind of knowing that there were other

136
00:05:24,790 --> 00:05:22,400
people out there

137
00:05:26,629 --> 00:05:24,800
who were experiencing similar phenomena

138
00:05:28,870 --> 00:05:26,639
really really gave me some

139
00:05:29,749 --> 00:05:28,880
peace of mind you know i i knew i i

140
00:05:32,870 --> 00:05:29,759
wasn't crazy

141
00:05:35,830 --> 00:05:32,880
if if nothing else and so you know

142
00:05:38,230 --> 00:05:35,840
when i was in my 20s then and i was kind

143
00:05:41,990 --> 00:05:38,240
of deciding what i wanted to do

144
00:05:44,150 --> 00:05:42,000
um you know i i started volunteering

145
00:05:45,270 --> 00:05:44,160
as a field investigator for the mutual

146
00:05:48,310 --> 00:05:45,280
ufo network

147
00:05:50,710 --> 00:05:48,320
and from there i

148
00:05:52,150 --> 00:05:50,720
tried to kind of narrow down exactly

149
00:05:53,749 --> 00:05:52,160
what i wanted out of this and what i

150
00:05:54,950 --> 00:05:53,759
wanted to get back and and eventually

151
00:05:57,909 --> 00:05:54,960
what i i landed on

152
00:05:58,390 --> 00:05:57,919
was i wanted to try to provide for

153
00:06:00,710 --> 00:05:58,400
people

154
00:06:01,430 --> 00:06:00,720
the the same thing that those authors

155
00:06:03,990 --> 00:06:01,440
and and

156
00:06:04,629 --> 00:06:04,000
a multitude of other authors since you

157
00:06:10,790 --> 00:06:04,639
know

158
00:06:11,270 --> 00:06:10,800
engaging with with witnesses um helping

159
00:06:13,909 --> 00:06:11,280
them

160
00:06:14,390 --> 00:06:13,919
try to understand their experience if i

161
00:06:16,230 --> 00:06:14,400
can

162
00:06:18,550 --> 00:06:16,240
i mean we don't have a lot of answers or

163
00:06:21,909 --> 00:06:18,560
if i can't at least

164
00:06:25,350 --> 00:06:21,919
being a safe place that they can come to

165
00:06:27,430 --> 00:06:25,360
and uh and share those experiences you

166
00:06:29,990 --> 00:06:27,440
know um that's not something that

167
00:06:31,029 --> 00:06:30,000
a lot of people have um and i think just

168
00:06:32,950 --> 00:06:31,039
in in the internet

169
00:06:34,790 --> 00:06:32,960
age uh that's that's something that

170
00:06:37,510 --> 00:06:34,800
we're finally able to kind of provide

171
00:06:40,629 --> 00:06:37,520
for people on a a more widespread basis

172
00:06:41,350 --> 00:06:40,639
and so that was kind of our thinking

173
00:06:43,590 --> 00:06:41,360
behind

174
00:06:47,510 --> 00:06:43,600
the singular 40 in society you know i i

175
00:06:49,990 --> 00:06:47,520
met my wife emily in 2015

176
00:06:50,550 --> 00:06:50,000
and of course we hit it off uh right

177
00:06:54,469 --> 00:06:50,560
away

178
00:06:57,270 --> 00:06:54,479
and uh sometime in 2016 we

179
00:06:59,430 --> 00:06:57,280
were kind of thinking about uh different

180
00:07:02,390 --> 00:06:59,440
projects like just creative projects

181
00:07:03,830 --> 00:07:02,400
and uh and you know my my background in

182
00:07:06,070 --> 00:07:03,840
education is uh is

183
00:07:07,670 --> 00:07:06,080
is writing and literature and she has

184
00:07:10,469 --> 00:07:07,680
degrees in photography

185
00:07:11,830 --> 00:07:10,479
and uh design and so we were thinking

186
00:07:12,950 --> 00:07:11,840
well between the two of us we should be

187
00:07:16,230 --> 00:07:12,960
able to come up with something

188
00:07:19,110 --> 00:07:16,240
right and uh and so we came up with the

189
00:07:20,710 --> 00:07:19,120
singular vortian society and uh and and

190
00:07:23,749 --> 00:07:20,720
at the very least i guess that was

191
00:07:26,950 --> 00:07:23,759
my motivation for you know behind my

192
00:07:27,909 --> 00:07:26,960
my half of it awesome well i gotta ask

193
00:07:30,309 --> 00:07:27,919
was uh

194
00:07:31,589 --> 00:07:30,319
was your wife into all this stuff before

195
00:07:33,510 --> 00:07:31,599
i know for me

196
00:07:35,670 --> 00:07:33,520
you know when i would go on first dates

197
00:07:37,749 --> 00:07:35,680
and the the ufologist

198
00:07:39,589 --> 00:07:37,759
thing would come up i would never i

199
00:07:41,350 --> 00:07:39,599
would never get the second date tobias

200
00:07:42,309 --> 00:07:41,360
what was it like um when you first

201
00:07:44,550 --> 00:07:42,319
shared all this

202
00:07:46,230 --> 00:07:44,560
with emily was she had she had

203
00:07:49,270 --> 00:07:46,240
experiences as well or

204
00:07:49,670 --> 00:07:49,280
how did that all happen sure so you know

205
00:08:18,469 --> 00:07:49,680
i

206
00:08:22,390 --> 00:08:18,479
but she wasn't

207
00:08:25,270 --> 00:08:22,400
really into the paranormal or

208
00:08:26,309 --> 00:08:25,280
or any aspect of it you know uh prior to

209
00:08:28,950 --> 00:08:26,319
us us uh

210
00:08:30,309 --> 00:08:28,960
meeting i think that she had some uh

211
00:08:33,269 --> 00:08:30,319
interest you know sort of a

212
00:08:34,389 --> 00:08:33,279
uh a casual you know kind of of interest

213
00:08:36,550 --> 00:08:34,399
but you know she wasn't actively

214
00:08:38,469 --> 00:08:36,560
investigating or anything like that

215
00:08:39,589 --> 00:08:38,479
uh most of her own experiences she had

216
00:08:41,750 --> 00:08:39,599
just kind of written off

217
00:08:43,029 --> 00:08:41,760
as some weird thing that who knows what

218
00:08:44,870 --> 00:08:43,039
it was maybe it was a dream or

219
00:08:47,829 --> 00:08:44,880
hallucination or something

220
00:08:48,470 --> 00:08:47,839
and um and yeah it was really after we

221
00:08:51,030 --> 00:08:48,480
we met

222
00:08:52,870 --> 00:08:51,040
that she became more involved and and

223
00:08:56,150 --> 00:08:52,880
you know obviously now she

224
00:08:57,590 --> 00:08:56,160
is investigating and and uh doing a a

225
00:08:59,269 --> 00:08:57,600
lot of good work for the the singular

226
00:09:01,910 --> 00:08:59,279
fortion society

227
00:09:02,710 --> 00:09:01,920
right right and well let's touch on that

228
00:09:05,030 --> 00:09:02,720
fortion

229
00:09:06,550 --> 00:09:05,040
now i know a lot of my listeners will be

230
00:09:09,350 --> 00:09:06,560
familiar with

231
00:09:09,910 --> 00:09:09,360
what 14 is who charles fort is but for

232
00:09:11,670 --> 00:09:09,920
those

233
00:09:13,030 --> 00:09:11,680
who don't know tobias i'm sure you're

234
00:09:16,150 --> 00:09:13,040
used to this question

235
00:09:19,350 --> 00:09:16,160
um can you kind of run us through fort

236
00:09:20,150 --> 00:09:19,360
101 the introductory course who was he

237
00:09:22,070 --> 00:09:20,160
what did he do

238
00:09:23,269 --> 00:09:22,080
and uh why did you guys decide that

239
00:09:25,829 --> 00:09:23,279
that's really

240
00:09:27,350 --> 00:09:25,839
the approach and kind of the um the

241
00:09:29,430 --> 00:09:27,360
inspiration for what you

242
00:09:31,430 --> 00:09:29,440
inevitably wanted to do with the with

243
00:09:33,750 --> 00:09:31,440
the society

244
00:09:35,910 --> 00:09:33,760
sure so uh charles ford was an early

245
00:09:36,470 --> 00:09:35,920
20th century collector of weird news

246
00:09:38,389 --> 00:09:36,480
stories

247
00:09:39,750 --> 00:09:38,399
and so essentially what he would do is

248
00:09:41,269 --> 00:09:39,760
he would um

249
00:09:43,269 --> 00:09:41,279
collect all of these weird news stories

250
00:09:43,990 --> 00:09:43,279
from all over the world and he would put

251
00:09:46,949 --> 00:09:44,000
them together

252
00:09:48,870 --> 00:09:46,959
and he would write about them in giant

253
00:09:51,910 --> 00:09:48,880
volumes like this

254
00:09:53,509 --> 00:09:51,920
which is you know a proud

255
00:09:55,910 --> 00:09:53,519
part of our book collection the

256
00:09:58,550 --> 00:09:55,920
collective works of charles ford

257
00:09:59,910 --> 00:09:58,560
and he would write about all of these

258
00:10:02,550 --> 00:09:59,920
weird news stories

259
00:10:03,190 --> 00:10:02,560
and um basically he would sort of

260
00:10:06,150 --> 00:10:03,200
speculate

261
00:10:07,590 --> 00:10:06,160
like very tongue-in-cheek um about what

262
00:10:10,790 --> 00:10:07,600
might be behind them

263
00:10:13,670 --> 00:10:10,800
and all of the the commonalities between

264
00:10:15,990 --> 00:10:13,680
these seemingly disparate subjects

265
00:10:17,190 --> 00:10:16,000
and uh the the fact is they have a lot

266
00:10:20,310 --> 00:10:17,200
in common and uh

267
00:10:21,670 --> 00:10:20,320
and he didn't ignore that and so one of

268
00:10:24,790 --> 00:10:21,680
his most

269
00:10:27,430 --> 00:10:24,800
famous quotes is one measures a circle

270
00:10:28,069 --> 00:10:27,440
beginning anywhere and that is to say

271
00:10:31,590 --> 00:10:28,079
that

272
00:10:33,110 --> 00:10:31,600
uh by examining uh any part of the the

273
00:10:36,550 --> 00:10:33,120
paranormal you know be it

274
00:10:39,750 --> 00:10:36,560
uh ghosts or ufos or cryptids whatever

275
00:10:42,069 --> 00:10:39,760
you can learn something about all of it

276
00:10:43,030 --> 00:10:42,079
because there are so many similarities

277
00:10:45,990 --> 00:10:43,040
that uh

278
00:10:46,550 --> 00:10:46,000
it's almost certainly connected in some

279
00:10:50,389 --> 00:10:46,560
way

280
00:10:52,150 --> 00:10:50,399
um and and what that means specifically

281
00:10:54,870 --> 00:10:52,160
is is unknown because nobody really

282
00:10:57,590 --> 00:10:54,880
knows enough about this stuff to really

283
00:10:59,110 --> 00:10:57,600
say for sure but yeah he would he would

284
00:11:00,069 --> 00:10:59,120
write all this stuff and he would find

285
00:11:01,590 --> 00:11:00,079
all of these different weird

286
00:11:02,389 --> 00:11:01,600
commonalities and sort of speculate

287
00:11:05,350 --> 00:11:02,399
about

288
00:11:06,470 --> 00:11:05,360
what was all behind it and um you know i

289
00:11:08,630 --> 00:11:06,480
mentioned

290
00:11:09,670 --> 00:11:08,640
uh some of the the authors that i i grew

291
00:11:12,230 --> 00:11:09,680
up reading and

292
00:11:13,030 --> 00:11:12,240
a lot of them were inspired by by

293
00:11:15,110 --> 00:11:13,040
charles fort

294
00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:15,120
and so you know i started seeing his

295
00:11:19,829 --> 00:11:16,800
name uh because

296
00:11:21,590 --> 00:11:19,839
of the the authors that i was reading

297
00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:21,600
and i was like well i mean obviously if

298
00:11:26,710 --> 00:11:23,360
he's inspiring these other people then i

299
00:11:29,670 --> 00:11:26,720
i need to know what he was about

300
00:11:30,389 --> 00:11:29,680
you know and um and yeah his his

301
00:11:33,350 --> 00:11:30,399
influence

302
00:11:34,230 --> 00:11:33,360
is uh is is everywhere his honestly uh

303
00:11:37,670 --> 00:11:34,240
charles ford's

304
00:11:39,910 --> 00:11:37,680
influence on uh you know modern day

305
00:11:41,190 --> 00:11:39,920
uh uh paranormal investigation or

306
00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:41,200
ufology or just

307
00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:43,600
whatever everything uh that has to do

308
00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:45,600
with with weirdness it's sort of

309
00:11:50,870 --> 00:11:48,640
uh analogous to um

310
00:11:52,230 --> 00:11:50,880
like hp lovecraft's influence on on

311
00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:52,240
horror it's it's just

312
00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:55,920
everywhere um and so if you really want

313
00:11:59,190 --> 00:11:57,360
to understand like

314
00:12:02,150 --> 00:11:59,200
for instance like john keel has seen

315
00:12:05,110 --> 00:12:02,160
something of a resurgence i think

316
00:12:06,870 --> 00:12:05,120
uh recently in in in popularity and

317
00:12:07,910 --> 00:12:06,880
people who are recognizing his work and

318
00:12:10,790 --> 00:12:07,920
stuff and

319
00:12:11,190 --> 00:12:10,800
and i submit you cannot understand john

320
00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:11,200
keel

321
00:12:14,230 --> 00:12:13,360
if you haven't read charles fort because

322
00:12:17,590 --> 00:12:14,240
he was such

323
00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:17,600
a big influence um

324
00:12:24,150 --> 00:12:21,120
and so that was kind of the the impetus

325
00:12:27,190 --> 00:12:24,160
i think behind us wanting to

326
00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:27,200
uh feature that that fortian mindset

327
00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:27,920
very very

328
00:12:37,269 --> 00:12:31,760
prominently because i think the the

329
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:39,030
i don't want to say that it's it's it's

330
00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:40,800
necessarily unbiased i

331
00:12:45,269 --> 00:12:43,680
but i think that what it might represent

332
00:12:48,710 --> 00:12:45,279
is sort of the

333
00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:48,720
uh purest form of what

334
00:12:52,310 --> 00:12:51,040
people are trying to do in the

335
00:12:55,190 --> 00:12:52,320
paranormal today

336
00:12:56,389 --> 00:12:55,200
you know so if if you roll back uh

337
00:12:59,670 --> 00:12:56,399
everybody

338
00:13:01,430 --> 00:12:59,680
who is popular now uh and who is

339
00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:01,440
influential now and you look

340
00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:03,760
at what their work is based off of

341
00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:04,800
you're going to find

342
00:13:09,430 --> 00:13:07,680
charles fort almost every time you know

343
00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:09,440
that that's that's jacques valle that's

344
00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:10,800
that's it's everybody

345
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:14,320
and so um rather than

346
00:13:20,790 --> 00:13:17,600
you know sort of focus on one individual

347
00:13:21,430 --> 00:13:20,800
or or one perspective or philosophy or

348
00:13:23,590 --> 00:13:21,440
something

349
00:13:24,629 --> 00:13:23,600
based off of charles horton why not just

350
00:13:27,190 --> 00:13:24,639
go back to

351
00:13:27,990 --> 00:13:27,200
fort and uh and include everybody's

352
00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:28,000
perspective

353
00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:30,560
since then sort of under this uh

354
00:13:34,949 --> 00:13:31,279
umbrella

355
00:13:37,030 --> 00:13:34,959
of fortiana right yeah i love

356
00:13:38,949 --> 00:13:37,040
umbrellas the perfect word because i

357
00:13:41,110 --> 00:13:38,959
think you know a lot of us spend

358
00:13:42,069 --> 00:13:41,120
all our time you know for me entrenched

359
00:13:45,189 --> 00:13:42,079
in just

360
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:45,199
ufos and not looking at the other

361
00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:47,600
topics that could be intrinsically

362
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:49,360
linked with that but i'm not even

363
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:51,120
bothering to look at the data or the

364
00:13:53,670 --> 00:13:52,560
evidence of that so

365
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:53,680
i think you're right i think it's

366
00:13:55,990 --> 00:13:55,279
important to always know where we've

367
00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:56,000
been

368
00:13:59,750 --> 00:13:58,560
um to see where we're going and i mean

369
00:14:02,470 --> 00:13:59,760
fort was that

370
00:14:03,189 --> 00:14:02,480
that pioneer for that really paved the

371
00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:03,199
way for

372
00:14:06,310 --> 00:14:05,760
everything that's come since then so no

373
00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:06,320
i'm i'm

374
00:14:09,509 --> 00:14:08,800
i completely agree with you on that and

375
00:14:13,110 --> 00:14:09,519
um

376
00:14:16,710 --> 00:14:13,120
i i guess to kind of rewind a little bit

377
00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:16,720
um let's go to mothman now this is a

378
00:14:20,629 --> 00:14:18,000
topic i

379
00:14:22,389 --> 00:14:20,639
love and i've covered it a couple times

380
00:14:25,189 --> 00:14:22,399
on the show whether it be with uh

381
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:25,199
you know seth breedlove or um several

382
00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:25,680
other

383
00:14:29,189 --> 00:14:27,839
john tenney i know talked about it a

384
00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:29,199
little bit on the show before

385
00:14:34,069 --> 00:14:32,320
but i never really gone that far into it

386
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:34,079
and when i learned that

387
00:14:41,430 --> 00:14:37,680
uh mothman had made a return possibly

388
00:14:43,590 --> 00:14:41,440
to the midwest i was uh oh man i was so

389
00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:43,600
excited to hear about this and you

390
00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:45,680
were one of the people who actually went

391
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:48,000
out and investigated these

392
00:14:53,910 --> 00:14:51,680
modern day stories of mothman so um

393
00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:53,920
let's go there the lake michigan mothman

394
00:14:57,829 --> 00:14:55,920
this was a book you came out

395
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:57,839
previously and i know it's going to be

396
00:15:03,110 --> 00:14:59,920
the uh the subject of an upcoming

397
00:15:04,389 --> 00:15:03,120
documentary as well um tell us a little

398
00:15:07,430 --> 00:15:04,399
about what prompted you

399
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:07,440
to to write the book what um how how you

400
00:15:11,670 --> 00:15:08,800
kind of got involved with the whole

401
00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:11,680
mothman investigation if you don't mind

402
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:15,120
no not at all so uh back in the spring

403
00:15:21,350 --> 00:15:18,240
of 2017 i had seen

404
00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:21,360
a trio of citing reports that that had

405
00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:22,160
come through

406
00:15:28,069 --> 00:15:25,360
the uh mufon case management system

407
00:15:28,710 --> 00:15:28,079
and they had published a short article

408
00:15:31,430 --> 00:15:28,720
uh

409
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:31,440
there wasn't a lot of information but

410
00:15:36,389 --> 00:15:33,360
they were all sort of describing

411
00:15:37,509 --> 00:15:36,399
this weird flying creature that that

412
00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:37,519
people were

413
00:15:42,629 --> 00:15:40,720
reportedly seeing in the chicago area

414
00:15:44,710 --> 00:15:42,639
and like i said there wasn't a lot of of

415
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:44,720
information to go on so i thought well

416
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:46,399
you know i mean mufon published

417
00:15:49,670 --> 00:15:48,720
in an article you know to their their

418
00:15:53,670 --> 00:15:49,680
own site about it

419
00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:53,680
um we'll see how it develops but mufon

420
00:15:57,670 --> 00:15:56,240
isn't uh really forthcoming with

421
00:16:00,310 --> 00:15:57,680
information very often

422
00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:00,320
uh so you know i i honestly thought that

423
00:16:05,189 --> 00:16:02,480
it would just be like a one-off article

424
00:16:06,949 --> 00:16:05,199
or our readers would enjoy it and we

425
00:16:07,829 --> 00:16:06,959
just never hear anything about it you

426
00:16:11,110 --> 00:16:07,839
know

427
00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:11,120
ever again and obviously that's not what

428
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:11,680
happened

429
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:15,600
um so it wasn't too long after that

430
00:16:21,509 --> 00:16:18,720
that i started seeing more reports

431
00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:21,519
being shared and and they were mostly

432
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:22,000
coming

433
00:16:26,790 --> 00:16:24,880
from uh phantoms and monsters uh so lon

434
00:16:28,629 --> 00:16:26,800
strickler over at phantoms and monsters

435
00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:28,639
and uh manuel navarette

436
00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:31,920
at uh ufo clearinghouse and so

437
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:33,519
i thought well if i'm gonna cover this

438
00:16:36,310 --> 00:16:35,360
journalistically i'm gonna need to reach

439
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:36,320
out to these guys

440
00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:39,199
and and see what's going on with this

441
00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:40,240
investigation

442
00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:42,800
and and what's behind these reports and

443
00:16:45,509 --> 00:16:44,480
so i had reached out to them both

444
00:16:47,829 --> 00:16:45,519
separately

445
00:16:49,829 --> 00:16:47,839
and was able to interview them in

446
00:16:51,269 --> 00:16:49,839
consecutive months that summer so it was

447
00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:51,279
june and july

448
00:16:55,350 --> 00:16:52,880
and you know i i found them to be very

449
00:16:57,509 --> 00:16:55,360
friendly uh very very forthright

450
00:16:59,189 --> 00:16:57,519
in uh in terms of you know being willing

451
00:17:00,230 --> 00:16:59,199
to talk about the investigations and

452
00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:00,240
sort of what they

453
00:17:04,069 --> 00:17:02,480
they had done uh to look into these

454
00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:04,079
sightings

455
00:17:09,750 --> 00:17:07,360
you know there were a lot of

456
00:17:10,549 --> 00:17:09,760
hypotheses being thrown around at that

457
00:17:13,990 --> 00:17:10,559
time

458
00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:14,000
but i i found that neither uh lon or

459
00:17:19,510 --> 00:17:15,760
manuel really had

460
00:17:20,470 --> 00:17:19,520
a set sort of uh you know pet theory or

461
00:17:21,909 --> 00:17:20,480
something that

462
00:17:23,829 --> 00:17:21,919
that they were trying to wedge these

463
00:17:24,870 --> 00:17:23,839
sightings into and so i was impressed by

464
00:17:28,470 --> 00:17:24,880
that

465
00:17:29,830 --> 00:17:28,480
because these signings kept coming in

466
00:17:33,590 --> 00:17:29,840
kept coming in

467
00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:33,600
um that uh you know uh our proximity to

468
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:36,240
that area was was noticed and and we had

469
00:17:39,990 --> 00:17:36,960
some uh

470
00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:40,000
some some mutual uh acquaintances

471
00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:42,559
and so um you know emily and i were

472
00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:43,679
asked to join this

473
00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:45,280
investigation which was great because it

474
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:47,200
didn't take very long for the singular

475
00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:48,640
affordance society

476
00:17:55,430 --> 00:17:51,760
to start getting uh our own uh

477
00:17:57,750 --> 00:17:55,440
citing reports from from witnesses so

478
00:18:02,150 --> 00:17:57,760
you know it it really snowballed

479
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:02,160
throughout 2017 um and into 2018

480
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:04,559
and really began tapering off since then

481
00:18:08,710 --> 00:18:06,720
and i don't know that it's ever going to

482
00:18:09,350 --> 00:18:08,720
to completely disappear we still get

483
00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:09,360
reports

484
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:12,080
honestly um but uh that that sort of

485
00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:12,640
furor

486
00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:17,280
from 2000 has has certainly died down

487
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:19,440
considerably which is interesting

488
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:21,360
because we do see these things

489
00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:23,200
go in waves i mean look at the first

490
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:25,760
wave in point pleasant in west virginia

491
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:27,280
that's where we got

492
00:18:30,630 --> 00:18:29,760
inevitably the the most reports of the

493
00:18:32,950 --> 00:18:30,640
mothman

494
00:18:33,669 --> 00:18:32,960
where the book came from and eventually

495
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:33,679
the movie

496
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:36,000
and everything like that um yeah it

497
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:37,200
seems to be

498
00:18:41,830 --> 00:18:40,080
like maybe in one year you'll get this

499
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:41,840
many reports and then it tapers off and

500
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:43,360
then it makes a comeback

501
00:18:48,789 --> 00:18:46,559
and um like you said you guys you

502
00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:48,799
in the book you had so many different

503
00:18:54,150 --> 00:18:51,440
reports of these winged humanoids and

504
00:18:54,870 --> 00:18:54,160
impossible mothman sightings so i mean i

505
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:54,880
guess uh

506
00:18:59,110 --> 00:18:57,360
my question for you would be um what

507
00:19:01,190 --> 00:18:59,120
patterns or connections

508
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:01,200
if there were any were you able to make

509
00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:03,440
with um you know what happened in point

510
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:04,960
pleasant back in the day

511
00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:06,720
and what you guys were coming across in

512
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:08,880
reports were they are we dealing

513
00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:11,520
i guess tobias with the same creature or

514
00:19:15,270 --> 00:19:13,440
an offshoot of that or

515
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:15,280
um yeah any patterns or connections you

516
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:17,600
made between the mothman of yesteryear

517
00:19:22,549 --> 00:19:18,960
and today

518
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:22,559
sure um you know i would say that

519
00:19:27,990 --> 00:19:26,000
the phenomenon whatever it is is likely

520
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:28,000
the same now i think what people need to

521
00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:29,120
understand about

522
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:30,720
the uh the lake michigan mothman

523
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:33,360
sightings is um

524
00:19:38,150 --> 00:19:36,240
as a result of our investigation like we

525
00:19:41,590 --> 00:19:38,160
were really able to create uh

526
00:19:43,029 --> 00:19:41,600
two separate profiles of of uh sighting

527
00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:43,039
types really

528
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:46,880
so the the first one is likely

529
00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:50,000
uh misidentified large uh birds

530
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:52,240
and i look nobody likes to hear that i

531
00:19:57,510 --> 00:19:54,640
don't like to hear it it's it's not fun

532
00:19:59,430 --> 00:19:57,520
but it is part of doing our due

533
00:20:01,510 --> 00:19:59,440
diligence as

534
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:01,520
uh uh in investigators of these

535
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:02,880
phenomena like if we come across

536
00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:03,840
evidence that

537
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:06,000
that something like that exists and then

538
00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:06,880
we have to

539
00:20:10,870 --> 00:20:10,320
to report that and so um what i i

540
00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:10,880
noticed

541
00:20:15,029 --> 00:20:12,880
was uh there were these daytime

542
00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:15,039
sightings where people would describe

543
00:20:17,990 --> 00:20:16,400
something large that they didn't

544
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:18,000
recognize flying usually at some

545
00:20:20,549 --> 00:20:19,520
distance the sightings didn't last all

546
00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:20,559
that long

547
00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:23,120
and and they weren't accompanied by any

548
00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:25,360
kind of paranormal phenomena

549
00:20:28,630 --> 00:20:27,200
that is is relatively common in the

550
00:20:31,669 --> 00:20:28,640
other sighting reports

551
00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:31,679
uh and then in the spring of 2018

552
00:20:36,549 --> 00:20:34,720
we received a sighting from a

553
00:20:37,909 --> 00:20:36,559
a man in the pilsen neighborhood of

554
00:20:41,110 --> 00:20:37,919
chicago

555
00:20:41,830 --> 00:20:41,120
and he had a video so he was bicycling

556
00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:41,840
to work

557
00:20:45,669 --> 00:20:43,760
and he noticed this man and woman

558
00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:45,679
standing on a street corner

559
00:20:50,149 --> 00:20:47,919
pointing at something that was in the

560
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:50,159
air and uh and he looks up and he sees

561
00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:52,080
what he later described to me

562
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:55,600
as um either a large bat or a man

563
00:20:59,909 --> 00:20:58,559
in a wingsuit and so he's got this gopro

564
00:21:01,430 --> 00:20:59,919
camera on his bike helmet

565
00:21:03,510 --> 00:21:01,440
and he decides he's going to follow this

566
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:03,520
thing around and get as much footage

567
00:21:07,909 --> 00:21:06,080
as he can which i mean is amazing and i

568
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:07,919
wish everybody did that

569
00:21:11,750 --> 00:21:10,080
and uh and so he did he got a lot of

570
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:11,760
good footage of it i mean it's it's it's

571
00:21:15,029 --> 00:21:13,919
it's a gopro camera so you know it's not

572
00:21:16,789 --> 00:21:15,039
uh uh

573
00:21:18,149 --> 00:21:16,799
the the resolution isn't amazing or

574
00:21:20,549 --> 00:21:18,159
anything but it's

575
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:20,559
it's darn good enough and uh and he was

576
00:21:24,789 --> 00:21:22,960
very forthcoming with with that evidence

577
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:24,799
and uh he was willing to send it to us

578
00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:27,840
um he even sent us the uh

579
00:21:31,590 --> 00:21:30,640
original sd card that uh the the footage

580
00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:31,600
was on

581
00:21:36,149 --> 00:21:34,000
and so i don't think for a second that

582
00:21:37,669 --> 00:21:36,159
that this guy was was lying to me i i

583
00:21:38,710 --> 00:21:37,679
really really don't i think he saw

584
00:21:41,909 --> 00:21:38,720
something

585
00:21:45,029 --> 00:21:41,919
that was anomalous to him and

586
00:21:45,990 --> 00:21:45,039
uh and and that um he uh he

587
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:46,000
understandably

588
00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:48,320
uh misinterpreted because what we found

589
00:21:52,630 --> 00:21:49,360
after

590
00:21:54,549 --> 00:21:52,640
examining this video and getting some

591
00:21:56,310 --> 00:21:54,559
good stills of the the object that he

592
00:21:59,350 --> 00:21:56,320
had seen and blowing them up is it was

593
00:22:01,590 --> 00:21:59,360
definitely a bird the silhouette to me

594
00:22:02,470 --> 00:22:01,600
uh looked like probably a a great blue

595
00:22:05,029 --> 00:22:02,480
heron

596
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:05,039
they they do live in that area you know

597
00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:07,520
they they migrate through every year

598
00:22:11,830 --> 00:22:10,240
and something people don't understand uh

599
00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:11,840
about herons in that

600
00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:15,039
area is that due to climate change and

601
00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:17,280
the destruction of their wetland habitat

602
00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:18,880
is there are more

603
00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:22,000
of these birds roosting in urban areas

604
00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:23,600
and they're coming up north earlier

605
00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:26,320
staying longer sometimes overwintering

606
00:22:29,669 --> 00:22:28,799
um and so i think that part of what we

607
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:29,679
were dealing with

608
00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:32,159
was people seeing these birds who

609
00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:34,720
weren't really used to seeing them

610
00:22:40,149 --> 00:22:38,000
um and so they interpreted it as as

611
00:22:40,630 --> 00:22:40,159
something weird and if they went at that

612
00:22:43,029 --> 00:22:40,640
time

613
00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:43,039
and googled like you know flying monster

614
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:44,000
chicago

615
00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:45,600
uh or something then they're gonna get

616
00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:47,520
all of these these winged humanoid

617
00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:48,720
sightings they're gonna

618
00:22:51,669 --> 00:22:50,240
they're gonna think well hey maybe maybe

619
00:22:55,029 --> 00:22:51,679
that's what i saw because i don't know

620
00:22:58,470 --> 00:22:55,039
what the hell it was otherwise and so

621
00:23:00,310 --> 00:22:58,480
that's that first profile however those

622
00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:00,320
by my estimation account for

623
00:23:06,470 --> 00:23:03,440
maybe 40 percent uh

624
00:23:10,470 --> 00:23:06,480
45 at the the most of

625
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:10,480
all of the sightings received um and so

626
00:23:15,029 --> 00:23:13,679
that really i i think forces us to

627
00:23:18,149 --> 00:23:15,039
examine then

628
00:23:20,630 --> 00:23:18,159
the the other profile which was uh

629
00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:20,640
very strange uh and certainly had a lot

630
00:23:23,909 --> 00:23:21,520
of aspects

631
00:23:25,029 --> 00:23:23,919
of the the paranormal involved and so

632
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:25,039
what those people

633
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:27,840
were describing uh if if you take their

634
00:23:32,470 --> 00:23:29,200
testimony

635
00:23:35,430 --> 00:23:32,480
at its its word really and my

636
00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:35,440
personal approach to investigation is to

637
00:23:39,669 --> 00:23:36,400
always

638
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:39,679
proceed as though whatever the witness

639
00:23:43,909 --> 00:23:40,799
is telling me is true

640
00:23:45,669 --> 00:23:43,919
unless i have direct evidence to the

641
00:23:47,190 --> 00:23:45,679
contrary so of course i follow up on all

642
00:23:49,269 --> 00:23:47,200
of the details provided

643
00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:49,279
check geographic and weather info all of

644
00:23:51,990 --> 00:23:51,120
that stuff to make sure that their story

645
00:23:55,029 --> 00:23:52,000
adds up

646
00:23:57,029 --> 00:23:55,039
and and if and when it does then

647
00:23:58,549 --> 00:23:57,039
i'm going to proceed as though the rest

648
00:24:00,390 --> 00:23:58,559
of what they're telling me

649
00:24:01,750 --> 00:24:00,400
is what actually happened or at least

650
00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:01,760
was their

651
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:03,760
experience and so in those sightings

652
00:24:06,630 --> 00:24:05,760
often what what you would have people

653
00:24:09,190 --> 00:24:06,640
report

654
00:24:11,190 --> 00:24:09,200
is relatively close contact with uh

655
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:11,200
something that they said stood between

656
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:12,960
seven and eight feet tall

657
00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:15,840
uh would have these these large wings um

658
00:24:19,510 --> 00:24:16,799
you know they would

659
00:24:21,909 --> 00:24:19,520
uh sort of alternately describe it using

660
00:24:24,870 --> 00:24:21,919
you know either bat-like or bird-like

661
00:24:27,190 --> 00:24:24,880
descriptors um often they would report

662
00:24:29,909 --> 00:24:27,200
you know these glowing red eyes

663
00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:29,919
uh they would talk about feeling this

664
00:24:33,990 --> 00:24:31,440
overwhelming sense of fear

665
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:34,000
or a palpable sense of evil some people

666
00:24:37,510 --> 00:24:35,440
would say that they thought

667
00:24:38,950 --> 00:24:37,520
that the eyes were sort of like staring

668
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:38,960
through them or into their soul

669
00:24:43,750 --> 00:24:42,000
or they were hypnotized by them and so a

670
00:24:44,789 --> 00:24:43,760
lot of really really weird stuff and

671
00:24:48,149 --> 00:24:44,799
also

672
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:48,159
uh sort of of happening alongside

673
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:51,360
those really weird reports is you would

674
00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:51,760
get

675
00:24:58,310 --> 00:24:55,279
uh reports of ufos uh often by the

676
00:25:00,310 --> 00:24:58,320
the same witnesses certainly in the the

677
00:25:00,870 --> 00:25:00,320
same area i mean everywhere around lake

678
00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:00,880
michigan

679
00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:03,520
has a lot of ufo sightings so i mean

680
00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:04,960
there's a correlation there

681
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:07,360
but uh yeah we all know correlation that

682
00:25:10,390 --> 00:25:09,760
doesn't necessarily mean causation uh

683
00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:10,400
but

684
00:25:13,750 --> 00:25:12,960
it's weird and it's the same kind of

685
00:25:16,470 --> 00:25:13,760
weird

686
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:16,480
that was happening in point pleasant

687
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:17,360
back in the

688
00:25:21,990 --> 00:25:20,480
the 60s you know 66 to 67 and and

689
00:25:23,029 --> 00:25:22,000
frankly never really stopped you know

690
00:25:25,029 --> 00:25:23,039
you can talk now

691
00:25:27,669 --> 00:25:25,039
you know like you you've had seth on

692
00:25:29,909 --> 00:25:27,679
before and you can talk to him and

693
00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:29,919
and uh you know he's talked to people in

694
00:25:32,950 --> 00:25:30,720
the uh

695
00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:32,960
uh ohio river valley who are still

696
00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:34,640
investigating these sightings because

697
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:36,400
really the mothman sightings are never

698
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:37,760
actually stopped right

699
00:25:41,990 --> 00:25:40,480
right um you know the the silver bridge

700
00:25:44,789 --> 00:25:42,000
collapse

701
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:44,799
in my opinion was a a convenient

702
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:46,720
narrative ending to the mothman

703
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:47,520
prophecies

704
00:25:51,029 --> 00:25:49,760
but probably totally unrelated to winged

705
00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:51,039
humanoid sightings in

706
00:25:54,830 --> 00:25:54,000
in that area because again they never

707
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:54,840
stopped

708
00:25:59,029 --> 00:25:58,080
um so yeah i mean there's there's a lot

709
00:26:02,470 --> 00:25:59,039
of

710
00:26:05,029 --> 00:26:02,480
commonalities there in what people are

711
00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:05,039
reporting so you know honestly i i held

712
00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:05,520
off

713
00:26:09,750 --> 00:26:07,919
referring to this as the the lake

714
00:26:11,510 --> 00:26:09,760
michigan mothman

715
00:26:13,110 --> 00:26:11,520
for like at least a year because i

716
00:26:15,990 --> 00:26:13,120
didn't want to sense uh

717
00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:16,000
sensationalize anything um and so i

718
00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:17,120
thought well you know

719
00:26:20,710 --> 00:26:19,520
if i just slap them off man label on it

720
00:26:23,110 --> 00:26:20,720
right away

721
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:23,120
then you know that's that's it's not

722
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:24,880
it's not good journalism it's not

723
00:26:27,909 --> 00:26:26,240
you know it's it's it's just

724
00:26:31,510 --> 00:26:27,919
sensationalistic so i

725
00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:31,520
i i used clunky terminology terminology

726
00:26:35,669 --> 00:26:32,000
like

727
00:26:39,029 --> 00:26:35,679
forever

728
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:39,039
until finally it it was

729
00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:41,520
too much to ignore and i thought well

730
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:42,320
look

731
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:45,520
the best way to contextualize this

732
00:26:50,950 --> 00:26:48,720
for for people is going to be to compare

733
00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:50,960
it to the thing that it has the most in

734
00:26:55,029 --> 00:26:52,000
common with and

735
00:26:57,510 --> 00:26:55,039
and right now and continuing that is

736
00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:57,520
the the mothman of point pleasant

737
00:27:01,430 --> 00:26:58,240
sightings

738
00:27:02,390 --> 00:27:01,440
so here we are you know uh four years

739
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:02,400
later with the

740
00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:05,440
the lake michigan mothman interesting

741
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:06,960
and i love that man because again

742
00:27:10,630 --> 00:27:09,760
yeah like we don't know if it's the same

743
00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:10,640
creature

744
00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:13,600
or uh uh or even the same you know

745
00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:14,960
phenomenon but

746
00:27:18,389 --> 00:27:16,640
at the same time the commonalities

747
00:27:19,029 --> 00:27:18,399
you're finding in the witness reports

748
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:19,039
and even

749
00:27:24,149 --> 00:27:22,480
um like you said how they're describing

750
00:27:27,590 --> 00:27:24,159
these feelings of

751
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:27,600
dread or or or doom or when they're

752
00:27:31,110 --> 00:27:29,360
looking into the eyes of these creatures

753
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:31,120
like that's so reminiscent

754
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:33,360
of what they were reporting back during

755
00:27:37,029 --> 00:27:35,200
the mothman days with point pleasant in

756
00:27:38,950 --> 00:27:37,039
the silver bridge collapse and

757
00:27:40,710 --> 00:27:38,960
and all that so i love that yeah and i

758
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:40,720
also really respect that

759
00:27:45,750 --> 00:27:44,320
um you are willing to say a lot of this

760
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:45,760
can be explained

761
00:27:51,590 --> 00:27:48,960
by natural causes or you know in terms

762
00:27:52,230 --> 00:27:51,600
of now e-natural causes of uh climate

763
00:27:53,909 --> 00:27:52,240
change

764
00:27:55,909 --> 00:27:53,919
being the reason that people are seeing

765
00:27:57,669 --> 00:27:55,919
birds they've never seen before

766
00:27:59,510 --> 00:27:57,679
in that area at that time that makes

767
00:28:02,070 --> 00:27:59,520
perfect sense that you

768
00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:02,080
your brain would not be used to seeing

769
00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:03,520
that and you would think it was

770
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:04,320
something

771
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:06,240
out of the ordinary so no i highly

772
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:07,840
respect the way that you

773
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:09,360
you approach this and that you were

774
00:28:13,350 --> 00:28:11,600
willing to wait until

775
00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:13,360
the evidence was there to say yeah i

776
00:28:17,269 --> 00:28:14,720
think we might be dealing with

777
00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:17,279
with a mothman phenomenon um well i

778
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:18,399
gotta ask you

779
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:21,360
uh a lot of people took notice of the

780
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:22,640
work that you did

781
00:28:25,669 --> 00:28:24,640
with the lake michigan mothman including

782
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:25,679
josh gates

783
00:28:29,990 --> 00:28:28,640
and his team over at uh expedition x and

784
00:28:32,230 --> 00:28:30,000
uh you were featured

785
00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:32,240
on the show with your research so i

786
00:28:36,870 --> 00:28:34,320
gotta ask what was that experience like

787
00:28:38,470 --> 00:28:36,880
you know getting into the world of tv i

788
00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:38,480
know it all too well when it comes to

789
00:28:43,269 --> 00:28:41,200
these topics and sometimes it's uh

790
00:28:44,549 --> 00:28:43,279
it's not what you hope for or what you

791
00:28:46,389 --> 00:28:44,559
expect but um

792
00:28:48,870 --> 00:28:46,399
what was the experience like working

793
00:28:49,590 --> 00:28:48,880
with um with the cast and crew over

794
00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:49,600
there and

795
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:51,279
how do you think they handled the uh the

796
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:53,120
mothman of lake michigan

797
00:28:57,990 --> 00:28:55,440
mystery sure uh you know honestly

798
00:29:00,950 --> 00:28:58,000
overall it was a very very positive

799
00:29:01,669 --> 00:29:00,960
experience i had a lot of fun uh phil

800
00:29:04,470 --> 00:29:01,679
and jessica

801
00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:04,480
were both great um the the only thing

802
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:04,960
for me

803
00:29:08,470 --> 00:29:06,960
was uh you know standing next to them i

804
00:29:11,190 --> 00:29:08,480
was just like i'm

805
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:11,200
not attractive enough to be here guys i

806
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:12,000
i'm

807
00:29:18,310 --> 00:29:17,840
uh they were great they were a a lot of

808
00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:18,320
fun

809
00:29:22,470 --> 00:29:21,440
um the the entire crew was fantastic the

810
00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:22,480
director

811
00:29:27,029 --> 00:29:25,200
uh producers uh you know everybody from

812
00:29:28,870 --> 00:29:27,039
the mic and and camera guys you know

813
00:29:30,710 --> 00:29:28,880
like all all just great and actually

814
00:29:32,389 --> 00:29:30,720
it was interesting uh sort of between

815
00:29:35,029 --> 00:29:32,399
filming i got to talk to

816
00:29:36,950 --> 00:29:35,039
to some of the the crew more and uh and

817
00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:36,960
they had weird stories from other shoots

818
00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:38,320
they they had been on you know like

819
00:29:43,350 --> 00:29:40,720
there's a guy telling me about um

820
00:29:44,389 --> 00:29:43,360
seeing the this weird ghost march in

821
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:44,399
hawaii when

822
00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:45,919
when they were filming there so like

823
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:47,840
that that was great i was like obviously

824
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:48,960
these are my people

825
00:29:55,830 --> 00:29:52,480
um so you know this is this is a

826
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:55,840
a lot of fun um and so you know

827
00:29:59,990 --> 00:29:58,240
uh like i said overall that was that was

828
00:30:01,269 --> 00:30:00,000
fantastic you know we we shot it in the

829
00:30:04,710 --> 00:30:01,279
sears tower or

830
00:30:07,269 --> 00:30:04,720
willis tower if if one must um and so

831
00:30:08,230 --> 00:30:07,279
uh yeah like that was great uh it's

832
00:30:10,470 --> 00:30:08,240
beautiful

833
00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:10,480
you know we're up on the the observation

834
00:30:14,789 --> 00:30:12,559
floor and so like

835
00:30:16,470 --> 00:30:14,799
we had an amazing view of the the city

836
00:30:18,870 --> 00:30:16,480
the entire time

837
00:30:20,149 --> 00:30:18,880
which i i love i mean chicago is a it's

838
00:30:22,630 --> 00:30:20,159
a great city

839
00:30:23,669 --> 00:30:22,640
and so um yeah that was that was all

840
00:30:26,149 --> 00:30:23,679
great and then you know i

841
00:30:28,149 --> 00:30:26,159
i watched the episode later and you know

842
00:30:28,470 --> 00:30:28,159
honestly i don't know about anybody else

843
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:28,480
but

844
00:30:32,870 --> 00:30:31,200
i emily had to make me watch it because

845
00:30:35,669 --> 00:30:32,880
i don't like watching

846
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:35,679
myself in things and so i was like you

847
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:36,000
just

848
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:37,919
watch it and you tell me if it's good or

849
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:39,760
not and like how it all worked out

850
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:42,159
and she was like no no no you you got to

851
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:43,520
watch it we'll just watch it

852
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:46,720
yeah and so i i i did and uh

853
00:30:50,789 --> 00:30:48,640
and i thought that it it was well done

854
00:30:54,149 --> 00:30:50,799
because i understand i mean i

855
00:30:57,509 --> 00:30:54,159
they sort of landed on um the the

856
00:31:00,789 --> 00:30:57,519
bird hypothesis i think it expanded that

857
00:31:03,269 --> 00:31:00,799
sort of to most of the sightings which i

858
00:31:05,909 --> 00:31:03,279
i think is understandable considering

859
00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:05,919
that the show itself has to deal with

860
00:31:12,630 --> 00:31:09,600
what is provable right now

861
00:31:14,549 --> 00:31:12,640
and i i think that what is

862
00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:14,559
absolutely provable right now is that

863
00:31:19,190 --> 00:31:16,000
some of the sightings

864
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:19,200
were of large birds you know and and so

865
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:20,320
you know i i had

866
00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:22,720
directed well one of the the witnesses

867
00:31:27,190 --> 00:31:24,080
that was on there

868
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:27,200
um the like that that uh video footage

869
00:31:31,669 --> 00:31:27,840
that's the

870
00:31:33,990 --> 00:31:31,679
the pilsen uh uh video footage that's

871
00:31:35,269 --> 00:31:34,000
the same you know that's the guy that i

872
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:35,279
was just talking about

873
00:31:38,870 --> 00:31:37,679
and so it's i think it was perfectly

874
00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:38,880
understandable

875
00:31:46,470 --> 00:31:42,080
for them uh sort of with their

876
00:31:48,389 --> 00:31:46,480
um you know material science based uh uh

877
00:31:51,110 --> 00:31:48,399
slants you know like they're like that

878
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:51,120
direction for them to land on well

879
00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:53,120
here's what we know uh we know some

880
00:31:56,950 --> 00:31:54,960
people are mistaking birds for

881
00:31:58,310 --> 00:31:56,960
something else and so we don't really

882
00:32:01,110 --> 00:31:58,320
know anything else beyond that

883
00:32:01,590 --> 00:32:01,120
so that's all we can say for for sure

884
00:32:04,789 --> 00:32:01,600
which

885
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:04,799
again like that's that's fair if you're

886
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:06,080
trying to

887
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:08,640
fit this mystery into like an hour-long

888
00:32:11,590 --> 00:32:09,440
episode right

889
00:32:12,470 --> 00:32:11,600
there's only so much you can do there

890
00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:12,480
right

891
00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:16,240
important too that like

892
00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:18,799
we live in an age now where these shows

893
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:19,840
are endless

894
00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:21,760
you know that you even have discovery

895
00:32:25,029 --> 00:32:22,880
plus where

896
00:32:26,070 --> 00:32:25,039
that's strictly what they're gonna be is

897
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:26,080
paranormal

898
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:28,559
um mysteries stuff like that so the more

899
00:32:30,870 --> 00:32:30,240
and more of this stuff that gets out

900
00:32:34,149 --> 00:32:30,880
there

901
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:34,159
uh the more saturated the topics become

902
00:32:38,149 --> 00:32:36,000
you know some in a good way some maybe

903
00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:38,159
not so much but what i'm seeing changing

904
00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:39,600
tobias maybe you

905
00:32:43,509 --> 00:32:42,640
you agree or disagree uh is they're

906
00:32:45,909 --> 00:32:43,519
willing to

907
00:32:47,509 --> 00:32:45,919
try to find an explanation more and i

908
00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:47,519
think that's where expedition x

909
00:32:51,509 --> 00:32:49,600
uh actually does some good work like

910
00:32:52,870 --> 00:32:51,519
they're putting the science behind

911
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:52,880
what they're doing they're not coming

912
00:32:55,750 --> 00:32:55,120
out and saying yeah yeah totally it's

913
00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:55,760
mothman

914
00:33:00,950 --> 00:32:59,039
like no let's let's actually show what a

915
00:33:02,950 --> 00:33:00,960
proper investigation looks like and

916
00:33:03,909 --> 00:33:02,960
let's try to find an explanation and i'm

917
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:03,919
noticing

918
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:05,600
that a lot more of the shows are willing

919
00:33:11,190 --> 00:33:07,679
to do that now and um

920
00:33:11,830 --> 00:33:11,200
not debunk but try to explain uh what is

921
00:33:13,350 --> 00:33:11,840
happening

922
00:33:15,590 --> 00:33:13,360
uh will it account for everything

923
00:33:16,389 --> 00:33:15,600
certainly never never it never will like

924
00:33:18,870 --> 00:33:16,399
you said like

925
00:33:21,029 --> 00:33:18,880
even in these waves of things uh even if

926
00:33:23,269 --> 00:33:21,039
they die down they're still

927
00:33:24,710 --> 00:33:23,279
happening somewhere and to certain

928
00:33:26,549 --> 00:33:24,720
people so uh

929
00:33:28,630 --> 00:33:26,559
yeah i think i see that changing where

930
00:33:29,350 --> 00:33:28,640
shows like expedition x were willing to

931
00:33:31,909 --> 00:33:29,360
say

932
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:31,919
yes um like you even you mentioned like

933
00:33:35,269 --> 00:33:32,880
that 40

934
00:33:37,029 --> 00:33:35,279
i'm able to check the box off and say

935
00:33:39,269 --> 00:33:37,039
this was a bird or

936
00:33:41,190 --> 00:33:39,279
or something of that sort or even i

937
00:33:42,070 --> 00:33:41,200
remember the episode that said it might

938
00:33:44,870 --> 00:33:42,080
have been a

939
00:33:46,470 --> 00:33:44,880
a guy in you know bat wings and a jet

940
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:46,480
pack going out there and flying around

941
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:47,519
the

942
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:50,640
that is

943
00:33:55,190 --> 00:33:52,960
look we're seeing jetpack dude all over

944
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:55,200
the place in los angeles right now

945
00:33:59,909 --> 00:33:56,720
so who's to say that's not what's

946
00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:59,919
happening so yeah i i'm glad to see that

947
00:34:01,990 --> 00:34:00,240
um

948
00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:02,000
shows are willing to do that and to

949
00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:03,600
reach out to people like you instead of

950
00:34:06,549 --> 00:34:04,240
just

951
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:06,559
you know hypothesizing and not going to

952
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:07,440
the people

953
00:34:11,510 --> 00:34:09,520
who actually put the time and work in to

954
00:34:14,790 --> 00:34:11,520
investigate these things

955
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,800
no i i completely agree you know and

956
00:34:18,310 --> 00:34:16,800
i i almost forgot like that that

957
00:34:20,470 --> 00:34:18,320
wingsuit hypothesis

958
00:34:21,430 --> 00:34:20,480
was covered and you know i i had

959
00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:21,440
dismissed it

960
00:34:25,589 --> 00:34:23,040
very early uh well you know because

961
00:34:25,990 --> 00:34:25,599
working with with lon and and manuel

962
00:34:29,109 --> 00:34:26,000
like

963
00:34:31,349 --> 00:34:29,119
you know people had already spoken to

964
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:31,359
to wingsuit experts who were like oh

965
00:34:34,629 --> 00:34:32,639
dude you would die

966
00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:34,639
there's no way that you can you can't do

967
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:36,560
it you can't jump off like the

968
00:34:39,909 --> 00:34:38,879
the sears tower in a wing suit and not

969
00:34:42,950 --> 00:34:39,919
die you weren't

970
00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:42,960
dead so yeah i mean and they

971
00:34:45,990 --> 00:34:44,480
of course came to the exact same

972
00:34:48,069 --> 00:34:46,000
conclusion um

973
00:34:50,470 --> 00:34:48,079
which any reasonable person would so

974
00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:50,480
yeah no i mean i i think from that

975
00:34:53,589 --> 00:34:52,399
that scientific viewpoint like they they

976
00:34:57,030 --> 00:34:53,599
did everything

977
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:57,040
that they they could you know and and

978
00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:59,760
you know like the the the weird stuff um

979
00:35:02,550 --> 00:35:00,720
you know like they

980
00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:02,560
they were able to entertain and i i

981
00:35:06,790 --> 00:35:04,880
think that jessica was more open to that

982
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:06,800
than necessarily you know phil who's a

983
00:35:10,790 --> 00:35:08,480
big naturalist right

984
00:35:11,829 --> 00:35:10,800
yeah um and so like they don't dismiss

985
00:35:13,510 --> 00:35:11,839
it entirely

986
00:35:15,190 --> 00:35:13,520
i think just at the end of the episode

987
00:35:15,990 --> 00:35:15,200
they're like hey this is this is what we

988
00:35:18,150 --> 00:35:16,000
can prove

989
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:18,160
this is what we can't prove so here you

990
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:20,400
go take it for what it is

991
00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:22,290
yep right

992
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:28,790
hey guys ryan spreck here when i'm not

993
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:30,000
making podcasts

994
00:35:34,069 --> 00:35:33,040
i am listening to them seriously i'm

995
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:34,079
obsessed

996
00:35:37,349 --> 00:35:36,640
and if there's one person and one show i

997
00:35:39,829 --> 00:35:37,359
turn to

998
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:39,839
every week to hear stories of the

999
00:35:43,589 --> 00:35:40,560
strange

1000
00:35:44,230 --> 00:35:43,599
the weird and the unexplained it's of

1001
00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:44,240
course

1002
00:35:49,109 --> 00:35:47,520
gotta be jim harold's campfire with over

1003
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:49,119
500 episodes

1004
00:35:52,470 --> 00:35:51,920
den of geek called jim harold's campfire

1005
00:35:55,430 --> 00:35:52,480
the

1006
00:35:57,589 --> 00:35:55,440
best tool we have currently in existence

1007
00:36:00,630 --> 00:35:57,599
to hear real-life scary stories

1008
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:00,640
from other human beings since the actual

1009
00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:03,839
campfire was invented the concept

1010
00:36:08,310 --> 00:36:06,000
is pretty simple jim talks to other

1011
00:36:09,510 --> 00:36:08,320
regular folks and strange stuff that's

1012
00:36:13,109 --> 00:36:09,520
happened to them

1013
00:36:16,310 --> 00:36:13,119
and yes that includes ufos and uaps

1014
00:36:18,630 --> 00:36:16,320
along with cryptids ghosts and true

1015
00:36:19,990 --> 00:36:18,640
head scratching mysteries one of my

1016
00:36:21,990 --> 00:36:20,000
all-time favorite stories

1017
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:22,000
is one where a woman almost ended up

1018
00:36:26,150 --> 00:36:23,280
being absorbed

1019
00:36:26,710 --> 00:36:26,160
by a painting in a mysterious bar that

1020
00:36:28,870 --> 00:36:26,720
seemed like

1021
00:36:29,829 --> 00:36:28,880
something straight out of the twilight

1022
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:29,839
zone or

1023
00:36:34,150 --> 00:36:31,680
there's the story of a young man who

1024
00:36:37,270 --> 00:36:34,160
encountered a spider-like creature

1025
00:36:38,630 --> 00:36:37,280
with baby hands then there's the story

1026
00:36:40,790 --> 00:36:38,640
of a woman in england

1027
00:36:43,109 --> 00:36:40,800
who encountered what she thought was a

1028
00:36:43,990 --> 00:36:43,119
banshee only to suffer a horrible

1029
00:36:47,349 --> 00:36:44,000
tragedy

1030
00:36:49,829 --> 00:36:47,359
only moments later no not all

1031
00:36:51,109 --> 00:36:49,839
of the stories in jim harold's campfire

1032
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:51,119
are horrifying

1033
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:53,440
some are actually pretty heartwarming

1034
00:36:57,910 --> 00:36:54,960
like a visit from a past

1035
00:36:59,190 --> 00:36:57,920
loved one or a peaceful near-death

1036
00:37:01,430 --> 00:36:59,200
experience

1037
00:37:03,270 --> 00:37:01,440
regardless there are true and

1038
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:03,280
fascinating stories told

1039
00:37:06,870 --> 00:37:05,760
by ordinary people who've had

1040
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:06,880
extraordinary

1041
00:37:13,750 --> 00:37:10,800
experiences so pull up a virtual log

1042
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:13,760
get cozy and tune in to jim harold's

1043
00:37:18,150 --> 00:37:14,880
campfire

1044
00:37:20,390 --> 00:37:18,160
available on apple podcasts spotify

1045
00:37:27,430 --> 00:37:20,400
or wherever you listen to somewhere in

1046
00:37:31,109 --> 00:37:29,829
alright so we are moving from mothman

1047
00:37:33,430 --> 00:37:31,119
tobias to

1048
00:37:34,710 --> 00:37:33,440
your next endeavor which might include

1049
00:37:36,870 --> 00:37:34,720
mothman might not

1050
00:37:38,310 --> 00:37:36,880
we'll we'll talk about that um but this

1051
00:37:40,870 --> 00:37:38,320
is strange tales

1052
00:37:42,790 --> 00:37:40,880
of the impossible your new book that

1053
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:42,800
just came out so um

1054
00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:44,640
what what was the impetus for this one

1055
00:37:48,870 --> 00:37:46,480
what you know for me i know

1056
00:37:49,990 --> 00:37:48,880
when i write one book there's so much

1057
00:37:51,750 --> 00:37:50,000
left over that didn't

1058
00:37:53,349 --> 00:37:51,760
make it in that i'm like i could write a

1059
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:53,359
whole other book and i

1060
00:37:58,470 --> 00:37:56,480
i i noticed that a lot of kind of the

1061
00:38:00,630 --> 00:37:58,480
the correlations you made in the mothman

1062
00:38:02,310 --> 00:38:00,640
book were now bleeding over into your

1063
00:38:03,750 --> 00:38:02,320
other work as well which is the sign of

1064
00:38:06,069 --> 00:38:03,760
a good investigator

1065
00:38:07,270 --> 00:38:06,079
so yeah tell us how um strange tales

1066
00:38:09,589 --> 00:38:07,280
came to be

1067
00:38:11,109 --> 00:38:09,599
sure so uh unlike the the lake michigan

1068
00:38:14,790 --> 00:38:11,119
mothman which was really

1069
00:38:16,470 --> 00:38:14,800
meant to be a a reference work so people

1070
00:38:17,589 --> 00:38:16,480
could have all of the sightings and

1071
00:38:18,790 --> 00:38:17,599
everything that it went into

1072
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:18,800
investigating them all

1073
00:38:25,510 --> 00:38:22,240
in one place uh strange tales of the

1074
00:38:28,950 --> 00:38:25,520
impossible was meant to

1075
00:38:31,190 --> 00:38:28,960
sort of describe the experience of of us

1076
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:31,200
investigating everything else that was

1077
00:38:34,150 --> 00:38:32,640
happening concurrently

1078
00:38:36,310 --> 00:38:34,160
frankly so like we weren't just

1079
00:38:37,270 --> 00:38:36,320
investigating like lake michigan mothman

1080
00:38:40,230 --> 00:38:37,280
you know through

1081
00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:40,240
to uh 2017 and on you know we've had all

1082
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:41,440
these other weird

1083
00:38:45,349 --> 00:38:44,640
reports coming in too and what i wanted

1084
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:45,359
to do

1085
00:38:49,030 --> 00:38:48,400
was get all of those together in in one

1086
00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:49,040
place

1087
00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:51,760
and then um you know in the the 40

1088
00:38:55,990 --> 00:38:52,640
incense

1089
00:38:56,870 --> 00:38:56,000
try to see what if anything they they

1090
00:38:58,870 --> 00:38:56,880
had in common

1091
00:39:01,270 --> 00:38:58,880
and and what we could sort of speculate

1092
00:39:04,470 --> 00:39:01,280
about and uh and and maybe

1093
00:39:05,430 --> 00:39:04,480
uh learn about you know and so it did

1094
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:05,440
have a lot

1095
00:39:12,069 --> 00:39:09,520
the lake michigan mothman

1096
00:39:13,670 --> 00:39:12,079
uh investigation and and both because

1097
00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:13,680
you know that's some of the the same

1098
00:39:17,910 --> 00:39:14,320
findings

1099
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:17,920
that uh uh came as a result of that

1100
00:39:24,069 --> 00:39:21,520
particular investigation was noticing

1101
00:39:24,790 --> 00:39:24,079
all of the weird commonalities you know

1102
00:39:27,670 --> 00:39:24,800
all of the

1103
00:39:29,349 --> 00:39:27,680
the the strange concurrent paranormal

1104
00:39:32,550 --> 00:39:29,359
phenomena happening

1105
00:39:36,310 --> 00:39:32,560
uh either to the same individuals or

1106
00:39:39,030 --> 00:39:36,320
in the the same area and then we took it

1107
00:39:39,910 --> 00:39:39,040
a little further because when you when

1108
00:39:42,790 --> 00:39:39,920
you really get down

1109
00:39:45,030 --> 00:39:42,800
to it and this is something that that uh

1110
00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:45,040
that's covered in uh strange tales

1111
00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:48,160
is across the board

1112
00:39:51,510 --> 00:39:50,800
in in sort of every aspect of the

1113
00:39:54,310 --> 00:39:51,520
paranormal

1114
00:39:54,870 --> 00:39:54,320
you have um all of these these really

1115
00:39:58,630 --> 00:39:54,880
really

1116
00:40:01,030 --> 00:39:58,640
obvious or stark similarities

1117
00:40:02,630 --> 00:40:01,040
to the point where if you kind of strip

1118
00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:02,640
everything down

1119
00:40:05,990 --> 00:40:05,520
to just it's it's it's basic you know

1120
00:40:09,190 --> 00:40:06,000
sort of

1121
00:40:11,510 --> 00:40:09,200
framework they sound exactly the same i

1122
00:40:14,710 --> 00:40:11,520
can give you an example there so i i

1123
00:40:16,150 --> 00:40:14,720
started out uh talking about nighttime

1124
00:40:17,589 --> 00:40:16,160
visitation you know because of course

1125
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:17,599
that's something that's that's very uh

1126
00:40:22,069 --> 00:40:19,200
very personal to me

1127
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:22,079
and what i found was interesting after

1128
00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:23,040
speaking to

1129
00:40:26,790 --> 00:40:24,480
people you know who had grown up in

1130
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:26,800
haunted houses people who said that they

1131
00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:27,760
had

1132
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:30,960
experienced uh alien abduction uh

1133
00:40:35,750 --> 00:40:34,079
you know people who had uh well

1134
00:40:37,349 --> 00:40:35,760
experienced even even weirder stuff you

1135
00:40:41,109 --> 00:40:37,359
know visiting them in

1136
00:40:44,309 --> 00:40:41,119
the night if you kind of just took out

1137
00:40:45,349 --> 00:40:44,319
the description of the the creature

1138
00:40:48,069 --> 00:40:45,359
itself

1139
00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:48,079
these stories were basically all the

1140
00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:49,440
same

1141
00:40:52,790 --> 00:40:51,200
you know what what you would find is

1142
00:40:56,309 --> 00:40:52,800
somebody waking up

1143
00:40:58,870 --> 00:40:56,319
in bed um able to move you know so

1144
00:40:59,990 --> 00:40:58,880
so sleep paralysis isn't really a a

1145
00:41:02,710 --> 00:41:00,000
factor here so

1146
00:41:03,430 --> 00:41:02,720
you know uh they're they're ambulatory

1147
00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:03,440
and

1148
00:41:07,510 --> 00:41:06,240
they see this weird thing whatever it is

1149
00:41:09,750 --> 00:41:07,520
maybe it looks like an alien maybe it

1150
00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:09,760
looks like a ghost maybe it looks like a

1151
00:41:15,270 --> 00:41:13,040
uh in amber orb inside of a solid

1152
00:41:17,589 --> 00:41:15,280
charcoal cloud which is a real report

1153
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:17,599
that that that we had um

1154
00:41:22,069 --> 00:41:20,160
but the point is they they wake up uh

1155
00:41:24,390 --> 00:41:22,079
they are sure they're awake

1156
00:41:25,109 --> 00:41:24,400
and they interact with this this weird

1157
00:41:27,910 --> 00:41:25,119
thing what

1158
00:41:29,670 --> 00:41:27,920
whatever it is and um you know they they

1159
00:41:32,870 --> 00:41:29,680
kind of all had

1160
00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:32,880
that basic story structure like

1161
00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:35,680
in in common which i i found very very

1162
00:41:38,630 --> 00:41:36,880
interesting

1163
00:41:40,230 --> 00:41:38,640
and i sort of thought to myself well why

1164
00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:40,240
aren't more people talking about this

1165
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:42,560
because it kind of seems like a big deal

1166
00:41:46,230 --> 00:41:43,520
to me

1167
00:41:48,630 --> 00:41:46,240
um and so that's that's what we get into

1168
00:41:50,470 --> 00:41:48,640
and uh and there are other commonalities

1169
00:41:53,109 --> 00:41:50,480
uh like i said of of place

1170
00:41:55,750 --> 00:41:53,119
and time and things that uh that that

1171
00:41:57,109 --> 00:41:55,760
also exist but like that was a big one

1172
00:41:59,990 --> 00:41:57,119
for me that that really stuck

1173
00:42:01,030 --> 00:42:00,000
uh stuck out was the the similarities in

1174
00:42:04,230 --> 00:42:01,040
these nighttime

1175
00:42:05,190 --> 00:42:04,240
visitations interesting yeah yeah yeah

1176
00:42:08,150 --> 00:42:05,200
because i

1177
00:42:09,510 --> 00:42:08,160
i kind of i love that idea of kind of

1178
00:42:12,790 --> 00:42:09,520
taking the

1179
00:42:15,109 --> 00:42:12,800
the focal point you know the the alien

1180
00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:15,119
or the ghost out of the equation

1181
00:42:18,470 --> 00:42:17,760
in seeing that the experiences still

1182
00:42:20,630 --> 00:42:18,480
line up

1183
00:42:21,829 --> 00:42:20,640
together like run parallel to one

1184
00:42:24,230 --> 00:42:21,839
another of how the

1185
00:42:26,150 --> 00:42:24,240
you know the after effects are or the

1186
00:42:28,550 --> 00:42:26,160
you know the mental toll it takes on you

1187
00:42:31,349 --> 00:42:28,560
or the psychological or emotional

1188
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:31,359
uh uh that's really interesting the

1189
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:32,640
correlations um

1190
00:42:37,510 --> 00:42:35,280
well let's talk about bet if you don't

1191
00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:37,520
mind this is one of the first stories

1192
00:42:40,630 --> 00:42:39,599
in in the book that really stuck out to

1193
00:42:43,270 --> 00:42:40,640
me um

1194
00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:43,280
primarily because uh we should add also

1195
00:42:47,190 --> 00:42:44,160
in this book

1196
00:42:49,349 --> 00:42:47,200
uh your wife does uh photography

1197
00:42:50,710 --> 00:42:49,359
and there's also illustrations

1198
00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:50,720
throughout as well to help

1199
00:42:54,950 --> 00:42:53,520
enhance the stories and to also you know

1200
00:42:57,589 --> 00:42:54,960
give you an idea

1201
00:42:59,190 --> 00:42:57,599
of what these people actually saw when

1202
00:43:02,230 --> 00:42:59,200
kind of you know

1203
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:02,240
language or words can't define it

1204
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:04,960
um and man that that creature that bet

1205
00:43:07,829 --> 00:43:05,760
saw

1206
00:43:08,950 --> 00:43:07,839
really stood out to me um not something

1207
00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:08,960
i want to run into

1208
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:10,640
so yeah could you tell us a little about

1209
00:43:16,390 --> 00:43:13,200
the story of bet if you don't mind

1210
00:43:18,069 --> 00:43:16,400
sure yeah absolutely so you know i first

1211
00:43:20,230 --> 00:43:18,079
spoke with that this would have been

1212
00:43:23,270 --> 00:43:20,240
what back in 2019

1213
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:23,280
and uh she had become aware

1214
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:26,400
of some of the work that we've done on

1215
00:43:30,069 --> 00:43:27,920
unwind humanoids

1216
00:43:31,990 --> 00:43:30,079
and and she wanted to to share her story

1217
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:32,000
and so her experiences as she recounted

1218
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:32,880
them to me began

1219
00:43:38,790 --> 00:43:36,000
in 1981 when she was just

1220
00:43:40,069 --> 00:43:38,800
13. she told me that she remembered

1221
00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:40,079
waking up

1222
00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:42,960
to her room being filled with this this

1223
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:43,920
strange light

1224
00:43:47,349 --> 00:43:46,560
and at that time her first thought was

1225
00:43:49,829 --> 00:43:47,359
uh this is in

1226
00:43:51,910 --> 00:43:49,839
in north carolina she thought hey the

1227
00:43:52,390 --> 00:43:51,920
the mountains on fire so they they live

1228
00:43:53,990 --> 00:43:52,400
by

1229
00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:54,000
you know these mountains and she's like

1230
00:43:57,030 --> 00:43:55,520
well there's got to be you know huge

1231
00:43:58,470 --> 00:43:57,040
fire engulfing the entire

1232
00:44:00,309 --> 00:43:58,480
mountain and she runs through her window

1233
00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:00,319
to see what's going on

1234
00:44:03,589 --> 00:44:03,040
and she sees this weird craft and and

1235
00:44:08,230 --> 00:44:03,599
she

1236
00:44:11,030 --> 00:44:08,240
after that uh

1237
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:11,040
she experienced um the this weird

1238
00:44:14,230 --> 00:44:11,680
sickness

1239
00:44:16,230 --> 00:44:14,240
like you know a very high body uh

1240
00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:16,240
temperature and and she's just

1241
00:44:21,510 --> 00:44:19,520
just did not feel well um and it wasn't

1242
00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:21,520
too long after that she said that she

1243
00:44:27,430 --> 00:44:24,720
was reading in in bed one night

1244
00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:27,440
and uh she saw this weird figure walk

1245
00:44:31,510 --> 00:44:29,680
past her door she notices the shadow of

1246
00:44:33,829 --> 00:44:31,520
somebody walking past her door

1247
00:44:35,990 --> 00:44:33,839
and then she uh said that she saw the

1248
00:44:38,950 --> 00:44:36,000
head of this weird uh

1249
00:44:40,230 --> 00:44:38,960
bird-like humanoid thing uh you know

1250
00:44:42,870 --> 00:44:40,240
sort of peek around

1251
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:42,880
her door frame uh and and look at her

1252
00:44:46,390 --> 00:44:43,280
for

1253
00:44:50,069 --> 00:44:46,400
you know several seconds and then uh

1254
00:44:51,910 --> 00:44:50,079
duck around and and disappear um

1255
00:44:53,589 --> 00:44:51,920
and so again what's what's interesting

1256
00:44:57,030 --> 00:44:53,599
about those is

1257
00:44:59,430 --> 00:44:57,040
uh now this is a a ufo story you know

1258
00:45:01,190 --> 00:44:59,440
and if you were a ufologist or something

1259
00:45:04,870 --> 00:45:01,200
you would look at this uh strictly in

1260
00:45:08,630 --> 00:45:04,880
terms of ufos but again

1261
00:45:11,829 --> 00:45:08,640
this this theme of people waking up

1262
00:45:13,589 --> 00:45:11,839
to weird lights in their room to

1263
00:45:15,030 --> 00:45:13,599
you know being in bed and having

1264
00:45:17,589 --> 00:45:15,040
creatures uh

1265
00:45:18,150 --> 00:45:17,599
observing them i mean it is across the

1266
00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:18,160
board

1267
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:21,119
in from every uh uh uh reported

1268
00:45:25,670 --> 00:45:21,839
phenomena

1269
00:45:29,109 --> 00:45:25,680
from uh bigfoot to mothman to to ufos

1270
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:29,119
uh to to ghosts it's it's it happens

1271
00:45:35,430 --> 00:45:32,240
in in every aspect so now

1272
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:35,440
five years later she had what

1273
00:45:40,790 --> 00:45:38,240
would become the most impactful

1274
00:45:44,710 --> 00:45:40,800
experience out of her series of

1275
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:44,720
encounters now as she related to me

1276
00:45:48,790 --> 00:45:48,000
she was on her way to visit her uh

1277
00:45:52,630 --> 00:45:48,800
sister

1278
00:45:55,829 --> 00:45:52,640
20 minutes away from her

1279
00:45:59,109 --> 00:45:55,839
and i believe it was about 8 p.m in i

1280
00:46:03,270 --> 00:45:59,119
want to say february so you know it was

1281
00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:03,280
already basically dark at at that point

1282
00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:06,640
um and so she is driving

1283
00:46:12,230 --> 00:46:09,280
to her sisters and she pulls up now this

1284
00:46:15,750 --> 00:46:12,240
is a very rural area and so she pulls up

1285
00:46:19,109 --> 00:46:15,760
to this uh t intersection

1286
00:46:21,910 --> 00:46:19,119
and um she uh she sees

1287
00:46:22,630 --> 00:46:21,920
as she comes up to this this stop sign

1288
00:46:26,069 --> 00:46:22,640
that

1289
00:46:29,589 --> 00:46:26,079
um there is this

1290
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:29,599
uh impossible creature uh in her

1291
00:46:33,829 --> 00:46:30,480
headlights

1292
00:46:37,829 --> 00:46:33,839
standing uh next to this barn that

1293
00:46:39,589 --> 00:46:37,839
is uh just briefly illuminated before

1294
00:46:41,349 --> 00:46:39,599
she can she can turn and so she sees

1295
00:46:41,750 --> 00:46:41,359
this thing that she describes as sort of

1296
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:41,760
this

1297
00:46:46,710 --> 00:46:44,880
bird-like human um and it's

1298
00:46:48,309 --> 00:46:46,720
it's it's dressed she said that she

1299
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:48,319
noticed uh in particular that it was

1300
00:46:53,670 --> 00:46:50,000
wearing these combat boots

1301
00:46:54,710 --> 00:46:53,680
and um and and she's terrified so she

1302
00:46:56,950 --> 00:46:54,720
gets the hell out of there

1303
00:46:58,790 --> 00:46:56,960
uh you know she turns and she takes off

1304
00:47:00,309 --> 00:46:58,800
and she goes about as fast as she can

1305
00:47:00,870 --> 00:47:00,319
now again these are winding country

1306
00:47:03,030 --> 00:47:00,880
roads

1307
00:47:03,910 --> 00:47:03,040
so she can go maybe 45 50 miles per hour

1308
00:47:07,829 --> 00:47:03,920
without ending up

1309
00:47:09,109 --> 00:47:07,839
in the ditch and after she takes off she

1310
00:47:10,710 --> 00:47:09,119
looks in her rearview mirror and she

1311
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:10,720
sees this thing following her it had

1312
00:47:14,870 --> 00:47:12,000
taken to the air

1313
00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:14,880
and it's it's coming after her and so of

1314
00:47:17,829 --> 00:47:16,640
course like terrified like she's doing

1315
00:47:20,710 --> 00:47:17,839
her best to get away

1316
00:47:21,270 --> 00:47:20,720
and it's to no avail this thing catches

1317
00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:21,280
up

1318
00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:23,280
and she says that it starts you know

1319
00:47:26,710 --> 00:47:24,559
beating on her car

1320
00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:26,720
and scratching on the the driver's side

1321
00:47:31,750 --> 00:47:28,800
as though it's trying to get in

1322
00:47:33,430 --> 00:47:31,760
and uh and she's absolutely terrified

1323
00:47:34,950 --> 00:47:33,440
while this this is happening and the

1324
00:47:38,069 --> 00:47:34,960
next thing she knows

1325
00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:38,079
it's midnight and she's nowhere near her

1326
00:47:42,390 --> 00:47:40,720
her destination with no idea how how she

1327
00:47:46,549 --> 00:47:42,400
got there she said that she had

1328
00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:46,559
basically just come to uh still driving

1329
00:47:51,750 --> 00:47:49,680
and uh and had no idea um you know

1330
00:47:53,750 --> 00:47:51,760
how she had gotten to to where she was

1331
00:47:54,870 --> 00:47:53,760
and so she figured out where she was she

1332
00:47:57,109 --> 00:47:54,880
wasn't that far

1333
00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:57,119
uh from from home and so she just went

1334
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:57,920
home

1335
00:48:00,950 --> 00:47:59,760
and of course her sister was was

1336
00:48:03,109 --> 00:48:00,960
terrified um

1337
00:48:04,549 --> 00:48:03,119
and so you know she had just kind of

1338
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:04,559
explained what happened and she said

1339
00:48:07,750 --> 00:48:05,520
that

1340
00:48:09,109 --> 00:48:07,760
um you know she had noticed some some

1341
00:48:10,470 --> 00:48:09,119
damage to her car

1342
00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:10,480
uh she had a picture of her car she

1343
00:48:13,270 --> 00:48:11,920
didn't have a picture of the damage uh

1344
00:48:15,670 --> 00:48:13,280
unfortunately and

1345
00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:15,680
and i've i've seen that um more than

1346
00:48:18,630 --> 00:48:16,800
once which

1347
00:48:21,030 --> 00:48:18,640
you know these older cases i don't know

1348
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:21,040
i didn't own a camera in 1986

1349
00:48:25,750 --> 00:48:25,119
so um it just kind of is is what it is

1350
00:48:27,430 --> 00:48:25,760
but you know

1351
00:48:29,349 --> 00:48:27,440
in speaking to her you know she

1352
00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:29,359
certainly seemed like

1353
00:48:32,710 --> 00:48:31,440
somebody who well she didn't have it

1354
00:48:35,670 --> 00:48:32,720
have anything to gain

1355
00:48:36,710 --> 00:48:35,680
i i can tell you that um like everybody

1356
00:48:39,270 --> 00:48:36,720
you know she

1357
00:48:40,790 --> 00:48:39,280
she had something to lose by having a a

1358
00:48:42,549 --> 00:48:40,800
story like this out there but she very

1359
00:48:45,190 --> 00:48:42,559
bravely was willing to uh

1360
00:48:47,510 --> 00:48:45,200
attach her name to it and she actually

1361
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:47,520
provided that sketch of the the creature

1362
00:48:51,030 --> 00:48:48,480
that was her

1363
00:48:51,510 --> 00:48:51,040
like that that that was bats uh sketch

1364
00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:51,520
you know

1365
00:48:59,510 --> 00:48:55,920
her her car and everything

1366
00:49:02,470 --> 00:48:59,520
um and so you know like i said before

1367
00:49:04,230 --> 00:49:02,480
um i you know if if i can verify the

1368
00:49:05,510 --> 00:49:04,240
details of somebody's story at least as

1369
00:49:07,589 --> 00:49:05,520
well as i can

1370
00:49:08,630 --> 00:49:07,599
which i was able to with her and she was

1371
00:49:09,750 --> 00:49:08,640
willing to go on the record and

1372
00:49:11,750 --> 00:49:09,760
everything else then

1373
00:49:13,510 --> 00:49:11,760
i'm going to proceed as though you know

1374
00:49:16,069 --> 00:49:13,520
the the the testimony

1375
00:49:17,030 --> 00:49:16,079
uh uh reflects uh the witness's

1376
00:49:19,910 --> 00:49:17,040
authentic

1377
00:49:20,390 --> 00:49:19,920
experience because what choice do i have

1378
00:49:23,030 --> 00:49:20,400
really

1379
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:23,040
um i think at the end of the day uh

1380
00:49:27,750 --> 00:49:25,440
there's a humanitarian aspect where

1381
00:49:29,670 --> 00:49:27,760
we have to remember and i think this is

1382
00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:29,680
very easy for some people to forget

1383
00:49:32,870 --> 00:49:31,440
that there are human beings behind every

1384
00:49:35,910 --> 00:49:32,880
single one of these stories

1385
00:49:39,510 --> 00:49:35,920
and these are very personal very

1386
00:49:41,190 --> 00:49:39,520
impactful sometimes traumatic

1387
00:49:42,630 --> 00:49:41,200
and and they deserve to be taken

1388
00:49:45,190 --> 00:49:42,640
seriously

1389
00:49:45,910 --> 00:49:45,200
they don't deserve to be interrogated um

1390
00:49:49,430 --> 00:49:45,920
or or

1391
00:49:52,710 --> 00:49:49,440
else and so

1392
00:49:55,589 --> 00:49:52,720
um yeah it was a it was for as

1393
00:49:56,470 --> 00:49:55,599
wild of a tale as it is you know it was

1394
00:49:58,950 --> 00:49:56,480
convincing

1395
00:50:00,710 --> 00:49:58,960
uh based solely on you know my

1396
00:50:04,069 --> 00:50:00,720
experiences speaking with

1397
00:50:05,190 --> 00:50:04,079
with that um and uh and how level-headed

1398
00:50:08,470 --> 00:50:05,200
and um

1399
00:50:11,510 --> 00:50:08,480
and and and credible that she's seen so

1400
00:50:14,630 --> 00:50:11,520
and then you know again just seeing the

1401
00:50:16,710 --> 00:50:14,640
the commonalities in in her experiences

1402
00:50:18,069 --> 00:50:16,720
with the experiences of so many other

1403
00:50:19,190 --> 00:50:18,079
people and of course they don't know

1404
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:19,200
each other

1405
00:50:25,589 --> 00:50:22,240
and there hasn't really been

1406
00:50:27,750 --> 00:50:25,599
any uh promoted like mainstream

1407
00:50:29,349 --> 00:50:27,760
narrative for them to kind of take

1408
00:50:30,790 --> 00:50:29,359
you know for them to kind of take this

1409
00:50:33,349 --> 00:50:30,800
stuff from

1410
00:50:34,870 --> 00:50:33,359
so i you know i i didn't really

1411
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:34,880
entertain the idea that they

1412
00:50:39,349 --> 00:50:36,960
had all just been absorbing the the same

1413
00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:39,359
media or anything because really

1414
00:50:46,230 --> 00:50:42,720
um like i said the the the commonalities

1415
00:50:49,270 --> 00:50:46,240
exist within the that that exist within

1416
00:50:52,630 --> 00:50:49,280
the uh narrative aren't really uh

1417
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:52,640
anything to do with the the details of

1418
00:50:56,150 --> 00:50:55,680
the uh phenomena so much as like how it

1419
00:51:03,349 --> 00:50:56,160
it

1420
00:51:07,030 --> 00:51:03,359
me

1421
00:51:09,670 --> 00:51:07,040
that i think uh

1422
00:51:11,270 --> 00:51:09,680
you you stress in the book is perception

1423
00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:11,280
uh is a big thing

1424
00:51:16,230 --> 00:51:13,680
as well and from what you just described

1425
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:16,240
to me of what bet has experienced

1426
00:51:20,309 --> 00:51:19,680
um a ufologist would think whoa that was

1427
00:51:22,390 --> 00:51:20,319
like

1428
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:22,400
some sort of missing time experience

1429
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:24,400
maybe she was abducted

1430
00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:26,960
maybe it was a screen memory you know i

1431
00:51:32,150 --> 00:51:29,520
always go back to this story i'm told

1432
00:51:33,270 --> 00:51:32,160
by a a ufo researcher who's looked

1433
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:33,280
heavily into

1434
00:51:37,109 --> 00:51:36,000
the connection between owls and alien

1435
00:51:40,069 --> 00:51:37,119
abductions

1436
00:51:40,870 --> 00:51:40,079
and uh the idea that a lot of the time

1437
00:51:43,910 --> 00:51:40,880
in owl

1438
00:51:47,030 --> 00:51:43,920
precedes or uh a ufo event

1439
00:51:50,309 --> 00:51:47,040
or is seen afterwards and that maybe

1440
00:51:50,950 --> 00:51:50,319
these are the form that an alien takes

1441
00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:50,960
so it's

1442
00:51:55,510 --> 00:51:53,920
recognizable to the human observing it

1443
00:51:57,430 --> 00:51:55,520
and i was always like yeah that's really

1444
00:51:58,470 --> 00:51:57,440
interesting and he told me this one

1445
00:52:00,309 --> 00:51:58,480
story

1446
00:52:02,309 --> 00:52:00,319
where uh mike clelland is the name of

1447
00:52:02,710 --> 00:52:02,319
the gentleman uh where a woman who had

1448
00:52:05,430 --> 00:52:02,720
been

1449
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:05,440
abducted many times throughout her life

1450
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:07,200
you know she was washing the dishes one

1451
00:52:09,430 --> 00:52:08,640
night and she looked out the window in

1452
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:09,440
the kitchen

1453
00:52:13,990 --> 00:52:12,960
and she saw a grey alien walking towards

1454
00:52:17,190 --> 00:52:14,000
her house

1455
00:52:19,910 --> 00:52:17,200
and she just was like no no

1456
00:52:21,430 --> 00:52:19,920
not tonight i i you know my kids need

1457
00:52:22,470 --> 00:52:21,440
help with their homework i've got too

1458
00:52:24,790 --> 00:52:22,480
many chores

1459
00:52:25,910 --> 00:52:24,800
no abduction tonight not happening so

1460
00:52:27,910 --> 00:52:25,920
she literally

1461
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:27,920
you know drops the plate in the sink

1462
00:52:32,309 --> 00:52:29,359
goes outside

1463
00:52:34,069 --> 00:52:32,319
and confronts the alien and when she

1464
00:52:37,190 --> 00:52:34,079
gets up to it and she's like no

1465
00:52:40,230 --> 00:52:37,200
no the alien like froze

1466
00:52:42,069 --> 00:52:40,240
and literally just went owl owl oh well

1467
00:52:44,309 --> 00:52:42,079
owl it literally started saying

1468
00:52:46,390 --> 00:52:44,319
owl in front of her as if it were

1469
00:52:47,750 --> 00:52:46,400
supposed to take that form and

1470
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:47,760
that she wasn't supposed to see the

1471
00:52:51,430 --> 00:52:50,640
alien and as comical as that sounds man

1472
00:52:53,750 --> 00:52:51,440
i was like

1473
00:52:55,030 --> 00:52:53,760
that makes perfect sense to me like it's

1474
00:52:57,750 --> 00:52:55,040
something that you would

1475
00:52:59,589 --> 00:52:57,760
recognize it's something that um you

1476
00:53:03,829 --> 00:52:59,599
know if you were to tell someone

1477
00:53:06,390 --> 00:53:03,839
uh i was abducted by a five-foot owl

1478
00:53:07,510 --> 00:53:06,400
in the middle of the night you know uh

1479
00:53:10,630 --> 00:53:07,520
near my house

1480
00:53:11,750 --> 00:53:10,640
like who's gonna believe that so i find

1481
00:53:13,270 --> 00:53:11,760
it really interesting how much

1482
00:53:16,150 --> 00:53:13,280
perception might have

1483
00:53:18,069 --> 00:53:16,160
a lot to do with this and how bet may

1484
00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:18,079
have perceived this experience

1485
00:53:22,230 --> 00:53:20,640
um in the way she did but who's to say

1486
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:22,240
that someone else who was put in her

1487
00:53:24,710 --> 00:53:22,960
shoes

1488
00:53:27,190 --> 00:53:24,720
wouldn't have taken something else from

1489
00:53:28,870 --> 00:53:27,200
it so i find that fascinating too this

1490
00:53:30,069 --> 00:53:28,880
whole idea of perception and i kept

1491
00:53:32,549 --> 00:53:30,079
coming across

1492
00:53:34,150 --> 00:53:32,559
that word in your book um and i'm so

1493
00:53:35,670 --> 00:53:34,160
happy you went there because

1494
00:53:37,430 --> 00:53:35,680
i think that has a lot to do with this

1495
00:53:39,510 --> 00:53:37,440
as well

1496
00:53:41,349 --> 00:53:39,520
oh yeah definitely uh you know and it's

1497
00:53:42,069 --> 00:53:41,359
it's it's interesting that you bring up

1498
00:53:44,710 --> 00:53:42,079
that particular

1499
00:53:45,430 --> 00:53:44,720
story too uh because something else that

1500
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:45,440
that i had

1501
00:53:49,510 --> 00:53:47,760
had noticed was sort of this theme of

1502
00:53:50,549 --> 00:53:49,520
interruption you know sometimes they're

1503
00:53:53,589 --> 00:53:50,559
surprising us

1504
00:53:56,549 --> 00:53:53,599
sometimes we're surprising them

1505
00:53:58,549 --> 00:53:56,559
which was always interesting like i i

1506
00:53:59,990 --> 00:53:58,559
spoke to a young woman in janesville

1507
00:54:01,270 --> 00:54:00,000
wisconsin who had a very similar

1508
00:54:03,750 --> 00:54:01,280
experience only

1509
00:54:06,230 --> 00:54:03,760
um she caught the thing that she

1510
00:54:09,670 --> 00:54:06,240
described to me as a a grey alien

1511
00:54:12,069 --> 00:54:09,680
uh completely off guard one night after

1512
00:54:13,349 --> 00:54:12,079
well i can just tell the the the story

1513
00:54:14,630 --> 00:54:13,359
real quick instead of

1514
00:54:16,230 --> 00:54:14,640
dancing around it because nobody'll have

1515
00:54:17,670 --> 00:54:16,240
any idea what i'm talking about yeah go

1516
00:54:20,309 --> 00:54:17,680
ahead

1517
00:54:21,750 --> 00:54:20,319
so she uh she falls asleep on her couch

1518
00:54:25,030 --> 00:54:21,760
one night uh wakes up

1519
00:54:25,510 --> 00:54:25,040
to this bright light in her uh living

1520
00:54:27,670 --> 00:54:25,520
room

1521
00:54:29,190 --> 00:54:27,680
and uh and it's coming through their

1522
00:54:32,309 --> 00:54:29,200
front door and so

1523
00:54:35,270 --> 00:54:32,319
uh their front door basically uh it has

1524
00:54:37,190 --> 00:54:35,280
uh this small wall uh that doesn't let

1525
00:54:37,990 --> 00:54:37,200
you see the front door from the living

1526
00:54:39,270 --> 00:54:38,000
room so in order

1527
00:54:41,190 --> 00:54:39,280
to go get the door you have to walk

1528
00:54:42,470 --> 00:54:41,200
around this this this wall

1529
00:54:44,549 --> 00:54:42,480
and then the the front door is right

1530
00:54:45,190 --> 00:54:44,559
there and so she she notices this light

1531
00:54:46,630 --> 00:54:45,200
coming in

1532
00:54:48,549 --> 00:54:46,640
from the the front there and she's like

1533
00:54:50,549 --> 00:54:48,559
well you know maybe it's my roommate

1534
00:54:52,470 --> 00:54:50,559
i'll go see make sure she has her keys

1535
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:52,480
since i'm up now anyway

1536
00:54:55,510 --> 00:54:53,760
and then as she's walking over she's

1537
00:54:56,309 --> 00:54:55,520
like oh man what if it's a burglar or

1538
00:54:59,109 --> 00:54:56,319
something

1539
00:55:00,150 --> 00:54:59,119
and then she rounds this this this you

1540
00:55:02,069 --> 00:55:00,160
know small wall

1541
00:55:03,910 --> 00:55:02,079
in in front of the the door and she sees

1542
00:55:05,829 --> 00:55:03,920
what she described to me as

1543
00:55:07,510 --> 00:55:05,839
sort of your typical gray alien uh you

1544
00:55:08,390 --> 00:55:07,520
know she said she stood i think like

1545
00:55:10,470 --> 00:55:08,400
five five

1546
00:55:12,470 --> 00:55:10,480
and this thing was shorter than her and

1547
00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:12,480
it had the big black eyes and and big

1548
00:55:15,190 --> 00:55:13,680
head and everything

1549
00:55:17,109 --> 00:55:15,200
and and this is where it got really

1550
00:55:19,750 --> 00:55:17,119
interesting for me because she said that

1551
00:55:21,990 --> 00:55:19,760
uh when she sees this thing um like she

1552
00:55:23,270 --> 00:55:22,000
was terrified and she screamed and then

1553
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:23,280
interestingly enough

1554
00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:26,640
when she screams the the aliens screamed

1555
00:55:31,109 --> 00:55:29,520
so like it surprises her she surprises

1556
00:55:33,750 --> 00:55:31,119
it they both scream

1557
00:55:34,150 --> 00:55:33,760
and then she takes off running and uh

1558
00:55:36,789 --> 00:55:34,160
and

1559
00:55:37,430 --> 00:55:36,799
from there she had sort of a uh not

1560
00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:37,440
typical

1561
00:55:41,109 --> 00:55:39,680
uh abduction experience but there you

1562
00:55:42,789 --> 00:55:41,119
know there are other things that that

1563
00:55:47,190 --> 00:55:42,799
you know you you would have

1564
00:55:49,829 --> 00:55:47,200
seen or heard uh sort of in uh uh

1565
00:55:51,349 --> 00:55:49,839
sort of just similar to other uh uh

1566
00:55:53,030 --> 00:55:51,359
abduction experiences where she's struck

1567
00:55:54,470 --> 00:55:53,040
by this beam of light that

1568
00:55:56,630 --> 00:55:54,480
that causes her to sort of float

1569
00:55:58,630 --> 00:55:56,640
backwards and then um you know next

1570
00:56:00,230 --> 00:55:58,640
thing she knows she's being lowered down

1571
00:56:02,870 --> 00:56:00,240
and sort of just

1572
00:56:04,630 --> 00:56:02,880
uh free and and awake on her couch as

1573
00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:04,640
though nothing had happened but uh

1574
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:06,640
it just reminded me of that you know

1575
00:56:11,510 --> 00:56:08,880
like sometimes apparently

1576
00:56:12,069 --> 00:56:11,520
um we just we catch each other off guard

1577
00:56:16,950 --> 00:56:12,079
and then

1578
00:56:18,630 --> 00:56:16,960
knows

1579
00:56:20,470 --> 00:56:18,640
that is just an awkward party for

1580
00:56:22,789 --> 00:56:20,480
everybody yeah

1581
00:56:24,069 --> 00:56:22,799
nobody's having fun at that party yeah

1582
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:24,079
no thanks

1583
00:56:28,710 --> 00:56:27,200
um but uh yeah with letters of

1584
00:56:31,430 --> 00:56:28,720
perception

1585
00:56:32,150 --> 00:56:31,440
uh yeah i think that from what i have

1586
00:56:35,430 --> 00:56:32,160
seen

1587
00:56:36,549 --> 00:56:35,440
um there seems to be some element of

1588
00:56:39,750 --> 00:56:36,559
this sort of really

1589
00:56:43,349 --> 00:56:39,760
directly linked to to consciousness and

1590
00:56:46,390 --> 00:56:43,359
and so i don't know if that represents

1591
00:56:49,190 --> 00:56:46,400
uh sort of consciousness as a medium

1592
00:56:49,589 --> 00:56:49,200
of of communication you know like they

1593
00:56:52,230 --> 00:56:49,599
that's

1594
00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:52,240
sort of how whatever we're dealing with

1595
00:56:54,309 --> 00:56:52,720
uh

1596
00:56:56,470 --> 00:56:54,319
communicates with us and so there's

1597
00:56:58,549 --> 00:56:56,480
there's a direct manipulation

1598
00:56:59,589 --> 00:56:58,559
where it can just appear however it

1599
00:57:02,230 --> 00:56:59,599
wants

1600
00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:02,240
uh or or how that all works but it

1601
00:57:07,270 --> 00:57:03,760
certainly seems

1602
00:57:08,309 --> 00:57:07,280
to be consistent across phenomena

1603
00:57:11,589 --> 00:57:08,319
especially when

1604
00:57:14,230 --> 00:57:11,599
you start to look at the

1605
00:57:16,470 --> 00:57:14,240
accompanying uh phenomena you know and

1606
00:57:19,910 --> 00:57:16,480
how similar that is you know like

1607
00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:19,920
we'll have a winged humanoid

1608
00:57:26,710 --> 00:57:24,000
witness who might experience poltergeist

1609
00:57:27,829 --> 00:57:26,720
phenomena after their sighting that's

1610
00:57:30,789 --> 00:57:27,839
very similar

1611
00:57:32,710 --> 00:57:30,799
to poltergeist uh phenomena that's

1612
00:57:34,150 --> 00:57:32,720
reported by somebody who lives in a

1613
00:57:37,829 --> 00:57:34,160
reportedly haunted house

1614
00:57:40,309 --> 00:57:37,839
or um you know you'll you'll have people

1615
00:57:41,910 --> 00:57:40,319
uh well reporting like glowing red eyes

1616
00:57:44,309 --> 00:57:41,920
like why does every cryptid have glowing

1617
00:57:49,349 --> 00:57:44,319
red eyes i mean it's it's reported

1618
00:57:51,270 --> 00:57:49,359
from seriously from bigfoot to mothman

1619
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:51,280
yeah like people report these these

1620
00:57:56,549 --> 00:57:53,040
glowing red eyes and

1621
00:57:59,670 --> 00:57:56,559
from a a purely uh i think

1622
00:58:01,589 --> 00:57:59,680
um biological uh perspective

1623
00:58:03,510 --> 00:58:01,599
they don't make any sense because one

1624
00:58:04,549 --> 00:58:03,520
one thing i'll do is i want to i want to

1625
00:58:07,109 --> 00:58:04,559
see if if

1626
00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:07,119
somebody reports glowing eyes you want

1627
00:58:10,789 --> 00:58:09,040
to examine whether or not that's eye

1628
00:58:13,349 --> 00:58:10,799
shine right

1629
00:58:14,710 --> 00:58:13,359
and so you know if i ask somebody that

1630
00:58:16,710 --> 00:58:14,720
and they're telling me that

1631
00:58:18,710 --> 00:58:16,720
there really was no light source that

1632
00:58:20,309 --> 00:58:18,720
that could have been causing this this

1633
00:58:21,910 --> 00:58:20,319
eye shine

1634
00:58:23,910 --> 00:58:21,920
and its eyes were glowing anyway well

1635
00:58:26,470 --> 00:58:23,920
that doesn't make any sense from a

1636
00:58:29,349 --> 00:58:26,480
biological perspective because

1637
00:58:31,910 --> 00:58:29,359
uh i would think that the easiest way to

1638
00:58:33,270 --> 00:58:31,920
go blind would be to have your eyes glow

1639
00:58:35,349 --> 00:58:33,280
because you're not going to be able to

1640
00:58:37,670 --> 00:58:35,359
see anything but just red

1641
00:58:38,390 --> 00:58:37,680
you know once once that's happening so

1642
00:58:39,990 --> 00:58:38,400
um

1643
00:58:41,510 --> 00:58:40,000
it's just interesting to me you know

1644
00:58:43,670 --> 00:58:41,520
like you see all this

1645
00:58:44,789 --> 00:58:43,680
this this this stuff these weird

1646
00:58:47,510 --> 00:58:44,799
commonalities

1647
00:58:48,789 --> 00:58:47,520
uh in in these experiences and it does

1648
00:58:51,430 --> 00:58:48,799
make you wonder

1649
00:58:53,430 --> 00:58:51,440
um what do they have you know what what

1650
00:58:55,589 --> 00:58:53,440
what else do they have in common is

1651
00:58:57,829 --> 00:58:55,599
is there a common source is there just a

1652
00:58:59,270 --> 00:58:57,839
a related source you know one of the

1653
00:58:59,910 --> 00:58:59,280
things that i like to speculate about

1654
00:59:03,270 --> 00:58:59,920
because

1655
00:59:04,630 --> 00:59:03,280
frankly uh the idea that all of this

1656
00:59:07,190 --> 00:59:04,640
weirdness comes from the

1657
00:59:07,750 --> 00:59:07,200
exact same source you know as though

1658
00:59:11,109 --> 00:59:07,760
it's it's

1659
00:59:14,309 --> 00:59:11,119
one uh entity or or intelligence

1660
00:59:15,349 --> 00:59:14,319
or you know even just one uh like

1661
00:59:17,670 --> 00:59:15,359
homogeneous

1662
00:59:19,270 --> 00:59:17,680
uh group of entities just met like

1663
00:59:20,630 --> 00:59:19,280
messing with us like that's not terribly

1664
00:59:23,910 --> 00:59:20,640
popular

1665
00:59:27,349 --> 00:59:23,920
and i get that because it does seem

1666
00:59:30,390 --> 00:59:27,359
a little um reductionist you know in

1667
00:59:31,990 --> 00:59:30,400
in terms of people's experiences you

1668
00:59:34,069 --> 00:59:32,000
know because they they do have

1669
00:59:35,109 --> 00:59:34,079
some stuff that's that's not in common

1670
00:59:38,470 --> 00:59:35,119
like at

1671
00:59:41,190 --> 00:59:38,480
all so right you know

1672
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:41,200
that being the case you know i have to

1673
00:59:45,670 --> 00:59:42,640
wonder if there

1674
00:59:47,109 --> 00:59:45,680
isn't just some set of of related

1675
00:59:48,870 --> 00:59:47,119
phenomena you know so sort of in the

1676
00:59:52,230 --> 00:59:48,880
same way that

1677
00:59:54,150 --> 00:59:52,240
uh you know you've got uh bears and

1678
00:59:56,150 --> 00:59:54,160
wolves and they both live in

1679
00:59:57,990 --> 00:59:56,160
in this forest that doesn't mean that a

1680
01:00:00,549 --> 00:59:58,000
bear is a wolf or a wolf is a bear

1681
01:00:02,549 --> 01:00:00,559
they're just both uh you know mammals

1682
01:00:05,030 --> 01:00:02,559
with a lot of common characteristics but

1683
01:00:06,470 --> 01:00:05,040
still unique individual species that

1684
01:00:08,470 --> 01:00:06,480
happen to occupy

1685
01:00:09,750 --> 01:00:08,480
the same territory so sort of in that

1686
01:00:11,670 --> 01:00:09,760
same vein what if

1687
01:00:13,109 --> 01:00:11,680
what we're dealing with is sort of this

1688
01:00:16,150 --> 01:00:13,119
invisible

1689
01:00:20,230 --> 01:00:16,160
uh universe of beings that sort of all

1690
01:00:22,789 --> 01:00:20,240
exist uh in in a form

1691
01:00:24,230 --> 01:00:22,799
that has to interact with us directly

1692
01:00:25,910 --> 01:00:24,240
through through consciousness and if you

1693
01:00:28,549 --> 01:00:25,920
want to get really weird

1694
01:00:29,430 --> 01:00:28,559
then you can start examining ideas like

1695
01:00:32,549 --> 01:00:29,440
okay

1696
01:00:34,150 --> 01:00:32,559
well our ancestors used to to uh

1697
01:00:36,230 --> 01:00:34,160
allow for the the possibility or at

1698
01:00:37,910 --> 01:00:36,240
least one popular explanation for

1699
01:00:39,589 --> 01:00:37,920
fairies with it was that they were the

1700
01:00:42,710 --> 01:00:39,599
souls of the dead well

1701
01:00:45,990 --> 01:00:42,720
what if human consciousness does

1702
01:00:47,750 --> 01:00:46,000
survive a bodily death

1703
01:00:49,270 --> 01:00:47,760
and it's able to take whatever weird

1704
01:00:51,030 --> 01:00:49,280
form it wants what if people when they

1705
01:00:54,309 --> 01:00:51,040
die can become fairies

1706
01:00:57,510 --> 01:00:54,319
what if they can become grays or mothman

1707
01:01:00,390 --> 01:00:57,520
or or anything else you know what if our

1708
01:01:01,430 --> 01:01:00,400
consciousnesses are part of this sort of

1709
01:01:04,630 --> 01:01:01,440
ecology

1710
01:01:05,670 --> 01:01:04,640
uh or or or ecosystem of of

1711
01:01:08,710 --> 01:01:05,680
consciousness

1712
01:01:12,069 --> 01:01:08,720
um and uh and we don't

1713
01:01:14,150 --> 01:01:12,079
really experience it at least not fully

1714
01:01:15,750 --> 01:01:14,160
unless we are either in like an altered

1715
01:01:18,789 --> 01:01:15,760
state of of consciousness

1716
01:01:21,510 --> 01:01:18,799
or or dead honestly

1717
01:01:22,470 --> 01:01:21,520
um yeah then it gets really really weird

1718
01:01:23,990 --> 01:01:22,480
so

1719
01:01:25,910 --> 01:01:24,000
uh these i mean these are the kinds of

1720
01:01:26,390 --> 01:01:25,920
things that i i i like to speculate

1721
01:01:28,230 --> 01:01:26,400
about

1722
01:01:31,589 --> 01:01:28,240
and and certainly you know i i talk

1723
01:01:35,349 --> 01:01:31,599
about that in the the book strange tales

1724
01:01:36,789 --> 01:01:35,359
yeah and look i was gonna say

1725
01:01:38,630 --> 01:01:36,799
everything's on the table

1726
01:01:41,510 --> 01:01:38,640
you know i mean we don't have the

1727
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:41,520
answers so why not go there why not go

1728
01:01:45,430 --> 01:01:43,440
as far out as we can

1729
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:45,440
and then reign ourselves in and i think

1730
01:01:50,069 --> 01:01:47,280
you know like you said the

1731
01:01:52,069 --> 01:01:50,079
this whole idea of consciousness and um

1732
01:01:55,349 --> 01:01:52,079
you know things being related

1733
01:01:56,230 --> 01:01:55,359
uh is very prevalent and i i was

1734
01:01:58,150 --> 01:01:56,240
actually

1735
01:01:59,589 --> 01:01:58,160
surprised to see how much you did cover

1736
01:02:02,069 --> 01:01:59,599
ufos in

1737
01:02:03,670 --> 01:02:02,079
in strange tales and um one of the

1738
01:02:05,910 --> 01:02:03,680
places you brought up

1739
01:02:07,190 --> 01:02:05,920
is very well known to the us in the ufo

1740
01:02:10,630 --> 01:02:07,200
field and that's a

1741
01:02:12,390 --> 01:02:10,640
chicago o'hare airport um when i say

1742
01:02:13,309 --> 01:02:12,400
that i know what everyone's thinking in

1743
01:02:16,470 --> 01:02:13,319
my audience

1744
01:02:19,589 --> 01:02:16,480
2006 disc over the airport

1745
01:02:22,390 --> 01:02:19,599
uh ufo event but um

1746
01:02:23,829 --> 01:02:22,400
lo and behold you dug up this report

1747
01:02:26,630 --> 01:02:23,839
that came to you

1748
01:02:27,190 --> 01:02:26,640
of not a ufo but something completely

1749
01:02:29,029 --> 01:02:27,200
different

1750
01:02:30,470 --> 01:02:29,039
so would you mind maybe telling us a

1751
01:02:32,150 --> 01:02:30,480
little about um

1752
01:02:33,510 --> 01:02:32,160
yeah yeah what you came across when it

1753
01:02:36,230 --> 01:02:33,520
came to uh

1754
01:02:38,150 --> 01:02:36,240
winged humanoids over at chicago air

1755
01:02:41,349 --> 01:02:38,160
airport

1756
01:02:45,349 --> 01:02:41,359
oh sure yeah i mean since

1757
01:02:47,910 --> 01:02:45,359
well i want to say december of 2019

1758
01:02:48,789 --> 01:02:47,920
probably is when people started

1759
01:02:51,750 --> 01:02:48,799
reporting

1760
01:02:53,349 --> 01:02:51,760
uh weird wind humanoids like yeah in and

1761
01:02:56,230 --> 01:02:53,359
around chicago

1762
01:02:57,990 --> 01:02:56,240
o'hare um and uh and i mean anybody

1763
01:03:01,029 --> 01:02:58,000
familiar with that area knows that it is

1764
01:03:03,910 --> 01:03:01,039
a huge sprawling airport it is

1765
01:03:04,630 --> 01:03:03,920
it's the the airport campus is is

1766
01:03:07,910 --> 01:03:04,640
enormous

1767
01:03:11,349 --> 01:03:07,920
and so um most of the

1768
01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:11,359
uh reports were you know at at least at

1769
01:03:14,710 --> 01:03:11,760
first

1770
01:03:17,190 --> 01:03:14,720
sort of coming from the the cargo area

1771
01:03:19,510 --> 01:03:17,200
and that's sort of a more isolated area

1772
01:03:21,270 --> 01:03:19,520
and there are some some large fields and

1773
01:03:23,270 --> 01:03:21,280
and stuff surrounding those

1774
01:03:25,430 --> 01:03:23,280
uh it's you know kind of set apart from

1775
01:03:28,950 --> 01:03:25,440
everything else and so

1776
01:03:31,029 --> 01:03:28,960
like my uh personal in introduction to

1777
01:03:32,950 --> 01:03:31,039
that now i mean most of these uh reports

1778
01:03:33,589 --> 01:03:32,960
that uh started coming in to uh to

1779
01:03:36,470 --> 01:03:33,599
manuel

1780
01:03:38,630 --> 01:03:36,480
and and then lon and then i had somebody

1781
01:03:42,069 --> 01:03:38,640
reach out to us directly

1782
01:03:45,109 --> 01:03:42,079
and i i spoke to this man who uh was a

1783
01:03:46,549 --> 01:03:45,119
a cargo employee um with with one of the

1784
01:03:49,589 --> 01:03:46,559
the major airlines there and

1785
01:03:52,230 --> 01:03:49,599
uh and he told me about how

1786
01:03:53,029 --> 01:03:52,240
he had left work one night and he was

1787
01:03:55,750 --> 01:03:53,039
going to

1788
01:03:56,390 --> 01:03:55,760
meet his friend for a a drink which

1789
01:03:59,190 --> 01:03:56,400
again

1790
01:03:59,910 --> 01:03:59,200
like this is another really common

1791
01:04:03,270 --> 01:03:59,920
aspect

1792
01:04:04,470 --> 01:04:03,280
of these sightings uh which is people

1793
01:04:06,870 --> 01:04:04,480
just on their way

1794
01:04:07,990 --> 01:04:06,880
to do normal people stuff all the time

1795
01:04:09,990 --> 01:04:08,000
you know whether it's

1796
01:04:11,029 --> 01:04:10,000
running out to you know grab a gallon of

1797
01:04:13,990 --> 01:04:11,039
milk going to

1798
01:04:15,029 --> 01:04:14,000
to meet a a friend for a drink maybe

1799
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:15,039
you're out to dinner with your

1800
01:04:18,549 --> 01:04:15,680
significant

1801
01:04:20,230 --> 01:04:18,559
other whatever but just out you know

1802
01:04:22,789 --> 01:04:20,240
doing things that we all do

1803
01:04:23,349 --> 01:04:22,799
all the time when you know they run into

1804
01:04:26,069 --> 01:04:23,359
these

1805
01:04:26,789 --> 01:04:26,079
impossible experiences so that's what

1806
01:04:28,789 --> 01:04:26,799
happened to him

1807
01:04:30,630 --> 01:04:28,799
he was uh he was heading out from work

1808
01:04:32,150 --> 01:04:30,640
to meet his friend for a drink and he

1809
01:04:33,750 --> 01:04:32,160
was driving past

1810
01:04:36,069 --> 01:04:33,760
this uh there's this large like i said

1811
01:04:38,390 --> 01:04:36,079
open field area um

1812
01:04:40,230 --> 01:04:38,400
and it's bordered by this like eight

1813
01:04:42,309 --> 01:04:40,240
foot tall fence like i've been there and

1814
01:04:44,309 --> 01:04:42,319
i checked it out and

1815
01:04:45,750 --> 01:04:44,319
and uh and yeah i mean really it is this

1816
01:04:47,750 --> 01:04:45,760
large grassy area

1817
01:04:49,990 --> 01:04:47,760
um with this this big fence in front of

1818
01:04:52,950 --> 01:04:50,000
it and you'll get wildlife in there like

1819
01:04:53,510 --> 01:04:52,960
deer and stuff find their way in um and

1820
01:04:57,270 --> 01:04:53,520
so

1821
01:05:00,230 --> 01:04:57,280
uh he's driving past it and uh and he

1822
01:05:01,829 --> 01:05:00,240
notices this what he described as like a

1823
01:05:04,950 --> 01:05:01,839
seven or eight foot tall

1824
01:05:08,710 --> 01:05:04,960
uh black uh winged being standing there

1825
01:05:10,710 --> 01:05:08,720
uh with these glowing red eyes and um

1826
01:05:12,789 --> 01:05:10,720
he was one of those people who reported

1827
01:05:15,910 --> 01:05:12,799
this intense feeling of fear

1828
01:05:16,630 --> 01:05:15,920
um and and this feeling of of evil for

1829
01:05:19,670 --> 01:05:16,640
lack of a

1830
01:05:20,710 --> 01:05:19,680
a better word you know and what's

1831
01:05:24,549 --> 01:05:20,720
interesting about

1832
01:05:27,670 --> 01:05:24,559
speaking with him too is uh it was very

1833
01:05:31,029 --> 01:05:27,680
um uh down to earth you know

1834
01:05:32,390 --> 01:05:31,039
uh uh sounding gentlemen like i i spoke

1835
01:05:35,510 --> 01:05:32,400
to him for some time

1836
01:05:38,789 --> 01:05:35,520
and uh and like a lot of people

1837
01:05:41,829 --> 01:05:38,799
do i mean he doubted his sanity at first

1838
01:05:43,990 --> 01:05:41,839
um and uh because

1839
01:05:45,190 --> 01:05:44,000
look i mean we've all heard of mothman

1840
01:05:47,910 --> 01:05:45,200
and we all think that it's

1841
01:05:48,230 --> 01:05:47,920
it's really really interesting and uh

1842
01:05:52,150 --> 01:05:48,240
and

1843
01:05:55,190 --> 01:05:52,160
no idea

1844
01:05:57,270 --> 01:05:55,200
who mothman is they don't know about any

1845
01:06:00,069 --> 01:05:57,280
of this stuff they've never heard of it

1846
01:06:02,309 --> 01:06:00,079
and so when they see something like that

1847
01:06:04,069 --> 01:06:02,319
they don't know what the hell to do

1848
01:06:05,670 --> 01:06:04,079
and uh and they think that they're

1849
01:06:09,270 --> 01:06:05,680
losing their minds

1850
01:06:11,510 --> 01:06:09,280
until they manage to you know get online

1851
01:06:12,630 --> 01:06:11,520
and look into it and and find somebody

1852
01:06:15,910 --> 01:06:12,640
like like you know

1853
01:06:16,789 --> 01:06:15,920
me or lon or manuel or you know whoever

1854
01:06:20,549 --> 01:06:16,799
else

1855
01:06:23,430 --> 01:06:20,559
um and that was this guy and uh

1856
01:06:24,549 --> 01:06:23,440
and so it seemed again you know very

1857
01:06:27,910 --> 01:06:24,559
very credible

1858
01:06:30,630 --> 01:06:27,920
at least in terms of being able to

1859
01:06:32,630 --> 01:06:30,640
you know verify the the verifiable

1860
01:06:33,109 --> 01:06:32,640
details of his story you know i i like i

1861
01:06:35,910 --> 01:06:33,119
said i

1862
01:06:36,710 --> 01:06:35,920
did go down there and uh and check out

1863
01:06:38,710 --> 01:06:36,720
that area

1864
01:06:40,789 --> 01:06:38,720
um and everything was was right where he

1865
01:06:44,549 --> 01:06:40,799
said it was and what was interesting

1866
01:06:45,990 --> 01:06:44,559
uh to me was again you know like my only

1867
01:06:48,710 --> 01:06:46,000
experience with o'hare had

1868
01:06:50,230 --> 01:06:48,720
been you know flying into and and out of

1869
01:06:51,109 --> 01:06:50,240
it like i'm relatively familiar with the

1870
01:06:52,549 --> 01:06:51,119
area but

1871
01:06:55,029 --> 01:06:52,559
you know i've never really spent a lot

1872
01:06:56,150 --> 01:06:55,039
of time hanging out around it or driving

1873
01:06:58,150 --> 01:06:56,160
around it

1874
01:06:59,430 --> 01:06:58,160
and it really is huge and there really

1875
01:07:02,789 --> 01:06:59,440
are some

1876
01:07:03,270 --> 01:07:02,799
some very large sort of natural areas in

1877
01:07:05,910 --> 01:07:03,280
there

1878
01:07:07,270 --> 01:07:05,920
uh it's not you know heavily forested or

1879
01:07:08,150 --> 01:07:07,280
anything like that but you know like i

1880
01:07:11,109 --> 01:07:08,160
said there are some big

1881
01:07:11,829 --> 01:07:11,119
big open areas that are relatively

1882
01:07:15,029 --> 01:07:11,839
isolated

1883
01:07:18,069 --> 01:07:15,039
and so the idea that somebody

1884
01:07:19,109 --> 01:07:18,079
could have a sighting like that uh in in

1885
01:07:23,029 --> 01:07:19,119
that area

1886
01:07:26,470 --> 01:07:23,039
um and have it be relatively isolated

1887
01:07:30,150 --> 01:07:26,480
um it seems possible

1888
01:07:31,349 --> 01:07:30,160
you know just just from uh examining it

1889
01:07:32,710 --> 01:07:31,359
you know because i think a lot of people

1890
01:07:33,910 --> 01:07:32,720
hear o'hare

1891
01:07:36,150 --> 01:07:33,920
and they think well you know there's you

1892
01:07:38,309 --> 01:07:36,160
know hundreds of thousands

1893
01:07:39,270 --> 01:07:38,319
of people going through there on a daily

1894
01:07:41,270 --> 01:07:39,280
basis

1895
01:07:43,190 --> 01:07:41,280
um you know how could they all you know

1896
01:07:44,630 --> 01:07:43,200
be missing it well i again like my

1897
01:07:46,630 --> 01:07:44,640
experience of going through

1898
01:07:48,630 --> 01:07:46,640
uh o'hare up until when i went down

1899
01:07:50,789 --> 01:07:48,640
there to to actually check it out

1900
01:07:52,230 --> 01:07:50,799
was you know being inside of a giant

1901
01:07:53,910 --> 01:07:52,240
airport and you would have no idea if

1902
01:07:56,069 --> 01:07:53,920
there's a mothman out on

1903
01:07:57,829 --> 01:07:56,079
on a field by the cargo area or

1904
01:07:59,029 --> 01:07:57,839
something like how would you know you

1905
01:08:01,589 --> 01:07:59,039
can't see it

1906
01:08:02,470 --> 01:08:01,599
yeah so yeah plus your mind is like

1907
01:08:04,230 --> 01:08:02,480
you're so

1908
01:08:05,750 --> 01:08:04,240
over stimulated when you're in an

1909
01:08:07,589 --> 01:08:05,760
airport to begin with like

1910
01:08:09,349 --> 01:08:07,599
the last thing on your mind is looking

1911
01:08:12,309 --> 01:08:09,359
out the window for a

1912
01:08:13,990 --> 01:08:12,319
cryptid or even a ufo like where's my

1913
01:08:14,789 --> 01:08:14,000
plane and am i going to make it to my

1914
01:08:18,070 --> 01:08:14,799
terminal

1915
01:08:21,590 --> 01:08:18,080
is the first thing on your mind right

1916
01:08:24,390 --> 01:08:21,600
oh totally yeah i mean of of course

1917
01:08:26,789 --> 01:08:24,400
you know so um yeah and and the the

1918
01:08:29,030 --> 01:08:26,799
reports kept coming in

1919
01:08:30,470 --> 01:08:29,040
uh especially like i said from around

1920
01:08:32,390 --> 01:08:30,480
that that cargo area

1921
01:08:33,510 --> 01:08:32,400
now there have been some other reports

1922
01:08:36,709 --> 01:08:33,520
that

1923
01:08:39,189 --> 01:08:36,719
uh were made by people who claimed

1924
01:08:40,550 --> 01:08:39,199
to be like pilots and and see the swings

1925
01:08:43,749 --> 01:08:40,560
humanoid on the

1926
01:08:46,870 --> 01:08:43,759
the tarmac and stuff um

1927
01:08:47,669 --> 01:08:46,880
now those i those can be a little

1928
01:08:50,070 --> 01:08:47,679
problematic

1929
01:08:51,590 --> 01:08:50,080
in that you know even with the witness

1930
01:08:54,789 --> 01:08:51,600
contact information

1931
01:08:58,550 --> 01:08:54,799
i really wasn't able personally to

1932
01:09:01,110 --> 01:08:58,560
to uh verify like the witnesses uh

1933
01:09:02,630 --> 01:09:01,120
identity so you know i i will definitely

1934
01:09:04,390 --> 01:09:02,640
stop short of saying

1935
01:09:06,070 --> 01:09:04,400
that that they are hoaxes because i

1936
01:09:06,950 --> 01:09:06,080
don't have any evidence for that and one

1937
01:09:10,229 --> 01:09:06,960
of my

1938
01:09:12,229 --> 01:09:10,239
biggest pet peeves are people

1939
01:09:14,630 --> 01:09:12,239
who label everything that could

1940
01:09:16,950 --> 01:09:14,640
potentially be a hoax as a hoax

1941
01:09:18,829 --> 01:09:16,960
without evidence of it actually being

1942
01:09:20,870 --> 01:09:18,839
one because i find that to be as

1943
01:09:23,030 --> 01:09:20,880
disingenuous as somebody

1944
01:09:24,950 --> 01:09:23,040
who labels uh everything as being

1945
01:09:27,030 --> 01:09:24,960
paranormal without any any

1946
01:09:29,110 --> 01:09:27,040
actual evidence of it being paranormal

1947
01:09:30,550 --> 01:09:29,120
if you don't know what it is or you

1948
01:09:33,030 --> 01:09:30,560
you know like you don't have enough

1949
01:09:36,309 --> 01:09:33,040
information to make a determination

1950
01:09:39,349 --> 01:09:36,319
the only honest thing you can do is say

1951
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:39,359
that and so when it comes to

1952
01:09:43,910 --> 01:09:43,120
the like um supposed like pilot

1953
01:09:45,510 --> 01:09:43,920
sightings and stuff

1954
01:09:48,470 --> 01:09:45,520
i don't have enough information about

1955
01:09:51,910 --> 01:09:48,480
those to say one way or the other but i

1956
01:09:52,390 --> 01:09:51,920
i can say that you know i i did reach

1957
01:09:55,830 --> 01:09:52,400
out

1958
01:09:58,790 --> 01:09:55,840
to to those witnesses and i was unable

1959
01:10:00,550 --> 01:09:58,800
to uh to uh verify their identity

1960
01:10:03,590 --> 01:10:00,560
because they kind of clammed up

1961
01:10:05,030 --> 01:10:03,600
after i i asked for that so

1962
01:10:07,270 --> 01:10:05,040
um you know whether or not that

1963
01:10:10,470 --> 01:10:07,280
represents uh somebody just

1964
01:10:11,110 --> 01:10:10,480
spinning a tall tale or if it's somebody

1965
01:10:13,270 --> 01:10:11,120
who just

1966
01:10:15,030 --> 01:10:13,280
doesn't trust a total stranger over the

1967
01:10:16,870 --> 01:10:15,040
internet with information that could

1968
01:10:19,910 --> 01:10:16,880
cost them their career

1969
01:10:21,669 --> 01:10:19,920
uh you know that's for you to decide but

1970
01:10:23,270 --> 01:10:21,679
um

1971
01:10:24,229 --> 01:10:23,280
but the you know the the other cases

1972
01:10:25,910 --> 01:10:24,239
like when you talk about the people

1973
01:10:27,669 --> 01:10:25,920
working in the cargo areas and

1974
01:10:29,110 --> 01:10:27,679
and truckers and stuff like that they

1975
01:10:32,149 --> 01:10:29,120
were i think

1976
01:10:32,790 --> 01:10:32,159
a lot less reluctant to to really get

1977
01:10:35,189 --> 01:10:32,800
into it

1978
01:10:37,510 --> 01:10:35,199
and get speak on the telephone and sort

1979
01:10:42,709 --> 01:10:37,520
of verify all of these details and stuff

1980
01:10:45,350 --> 01:10:42,719
um you know because i i feel like they

1981
01:10:46,550 --> 01:10:45,360
much like a lot of people i felt like

1982
01:10:48,790 --> 01:10:46,560
they didn't want

1983
01:10:50,630 --> 01:10:48,800
their name like full name necessarily

1984
01:10:53,110 --> 01:10:50,640
attached to these stories because of the

1985
01:10:54,229 --> 01:10:53,120
the social stigma but i don't think that

1986
01:10:57,510 --> 01:10:54,239
they had the same

1987
01:11:00,709 --> 01:10:57,520
fear of tanking like their entire career

1988
01:11:02,470 --> 01:11:00,719
that that you could possibly see uh uh

1989
01:11:04,870 --> 01:11:02,480
amongst you know like a professional

1990
01:11:07,990 --> 01:11:04,880
airline pilot or or something similar

1991
01:11:09,750 --> 01:11:08,000
yeah that that's a good point i i was

1992
01:11:13,189 --> 01:11:09,760
just gonna say tobias the only

1993
01:11:14,709 --> 01:11:13,199
real uh witness that we have that has

1994
01:11:18,229 --> 01:11:14,719
come forward from the

1995
01:11:19,189 --> 01:11:18,239
chicago o'hare uh ufo incident was the

1996
01:11:22,470 --> 01:11:19,199
same was a

1997
01:11:23,910 --> 01:11:22,480
cargo uh person as well so i think

1998
01:11:26,870 --> 01:11:23,920
you're right i think there's

1999
01:11:28,630 --> 01:11:26,880
you know not to take anything away from

2000
01:11:29,350 --> 01:11:28,640
probably the really hard work that they

2001
01:11:30,870 --> 01:11:29,360
do

2002
01:11:32,550 --> 01:11:30,880
every day at the airport but yeah

2003
01:11:36,070 --> 01:11:32,560
they're not flying uh

2004
01:11:37,189 --> 01:11:36,080
a 747 they're not you know uh risking

2005
01:11:42,070 --> 01:11:37,199
their flight

2006
01:11:43,990 --> 01:11:42,080
this so they might be a little more apt

2007
01:11:46,310 --> 01:11:44,000
to be like i saw something weird

2008
01:11:50,550 --> 01:11:46,320
and i want to talk about it so yeah i

2009
01:11:55,030 --> 01:11:53,430
yeah definitely um you know and and so

2010
01:11:55,590 --> 01:11:55,040
there's there's really been all manner

2011
01:12:01,669 --> 01:11:55,600
of

2012
01:12:03,350 --> 01:12:01,679
since um and you know i i don't think

2013
01:12:05,910 --> 01:12:03,360
that this just started happening

2014
01:12:08,310 --> 01:12:05,920
frankly because the the longer that this

2015
01:12:11,510 --> 01:12:08,320
investigation goes on

2016
01:12:15,270 --> 01:12:11,520
the more historical cases that we

2017
01:12:17,430 --> 01:12:15,280
tend to get because again most people

2018
01:12:19,110 --> 01:12:17,440
have never heard of the mothman they

2019
01:12:20,709 --> 01:12:19,120
don't know who john keel is

2020
01:12:22,149 --> 01:12:20,719
they've never heard of point pleasant

2021
01:12:24,709 --> 01:12:22,159
they don't know who i am

2022
01:12:26,709 --> 01:12:24,719
like they like most normal people don't

2023
01:12:29,750 --> 01:12:26,719
know about any of this stuff

2024
01:12:32,470 --> 01:12:29,760
and so what we would see is

2025
01:12:33,350 --> 01:12:32,480
um like an article like maybe i had

2026
01:12:36,870 --> 01:12:33,360
written or something

2027
01:12:39,910 --> 01:12:36,880
uh gets a lot of popularity online

2028
01:12:42,870 --> 01:12:39,920
and you know it gets you know five

2029
01:12:43,830 --> 01:12:42,880
six hundred thousand views or something

2030
01:12:46,390 --> 01:12:43,840
and so

2031
01:12:48,070 --> 01:12:46,400
it just finds its way to this person

2032
01:12:50,709 --> 01:12:48,080
who's been sitting on a story for

2033
01:12:53,189 --> 01:12:50,719
like 30 or 40 years sometimes and they

2034
01:12:56,229 --> 01:12:53,199
go wow holy crap i had no idea

2035
01:12:59,189 --> 01:12:56,239
that anybody had ever seen something

2036
01:13:00,709 --> 01:12:59,199
even similar to this experience i i had

2037
01:13:03,830 --> 01:13:00,719
you know way back when

2038
01:13:04,630 --> 01:13:03,840
um and so now you know they're they are

2039
01:13:07,910 --> 01:13:04,640
uh

2040
01:13:09,590 --> 01:13:07,920
actually sort of um comfortable i think

2041
01:13:11,590 --> 01:13:09,600
uh sharing it because i mean where else

2042
01:13:12,950 --> 01:13:11,600
would you go you know people don't call

2043
01:13:15,990 --> 01:13:12,960
the police for this stuff

2044
01:13:18,229 --> 01:13:16,000
um you're just right i i don't

2045
01:13:19,430 --> 01:13:18,239
think people have called the the police

2046
01:13:22,149 --> 01:13:19,440
to report this stuff

2047
01:13:23,669 --> 01:13:22,159
since like sometime in the late 80s

2048
01:13:26,870 --> 01:13:23,679
early 90s

2049
01:13:27,910 --> 01:13:26,880
it's just it stopped being a a thing i

2050
01:13:30,870 --> 01:13:27,920
think especially

2051
01:13:31,990 --> 01:13:30,880
the more these events got into the

2052
01:13:33,990 --> 01:13:32,000
popular consciousness

2053
01:13:35,510 --> 01:13:34,000
like it it's not real tough for people

2054
01:13:36,950 --> 01:13:35,520
to look especially beginning in sort of

2055
01:13:39,270 --> 01:13:36,960
like the 70s

2056
01:13:40,709 --> 01:13:39,280
it wasn't real hard for people to look

2057
01:13:44,870 --> 01:13:40,719
what media

2058
01:13:47,350 --> 01:13:44,880
people's lives

2059
01:13:48,550 --> 01:13:47,360
and the kind of circus they would become

2060
01:13:50,550 --> 01:13:48,560
and it never

2061
01:13:52,470 --> 01:13:50,560
helped and the police were never able to

2062
01:13:54,070 --> 01:13:52,480
do anything or help anybody with this

2063
01:13:55,910 --> 01:13:54,080
stuff in any way

2064
01:13:58,470 --> 01:13:55,920
um and so i think at a certain point

2065
01:14:00,790 --> 01:13:58,480
people just kind of decided you know hey

2066
01:14:02,229 --> 01:14:00,800
um this isn't worth it yeah it's not

2067
01:14:03,990 --> 01:14:02,239
worth it oh that's

2068
01:14:06,950 --> 01:14:04,000
wow yeah i never really thought about

2069
01:14:10,070 --> 01:14:06,960
that yeah you would see a lot of early

2070
01:14:11,669 --> 01:14:10,080
ufo sighting reports or i'm sure uh

2071
01:14:13,430 --> 01:14:11,679
cryptids as well going to law

2072
01:14:14,470 --> 01:14:13,440
enforcement because like you said where

2073
01:14:16,790 --> 01:14:14,480
else would you turn

2074
01:14:17,830 --> 01:14:16,800
and you didn't have you know kind of

2075
01:14:21,270 --> 01:14:17,840
this

2076
01:14:22,470 --> 01:14:21,280
ingrained uh ridicule factor within the

2077
01:14:24,229 --> 01:14:22,480
mainstream media

2078
01:14:26,470 --> 01:14:24,239
on how to handle these topics and we

2079
01:14:29,510 --> 01:14:26,480
know that's why project blue book

2080
01:14:30,550 --> 01:14:29,520
existed here in the ufo world and why

2081
01:14:32,550 --> 01:14:30,560
they told

2082
01:14:34,070 --> 01:14:32,560
all these news stations and newspapers

2083
01:14:38,070 --> 01:14:34,080
to downplay it

2084
01:14:41,270 --> 01:14:38,080
and to um you know say their kooks and

2085
01:14:43,590 --> 01:14:41,280
crazy and tinfoil hat wearing and um

2086
01:14:44,630 --> 01:14:43,600
let it you know let it feed itself in

2087
01:14:46,390 --> 01:14:44,640
terms of that

2088
01:14:48,310 --> 01:14:46,400
um when you're right back then it was

2089
01:14:49,830 --> 01:14:48,320
like i honestly saw this

2090
01:14:51,910 --> 01:14:49,840
i don't know what else to do i'm gonna

2091
01:14:54,310 --> 01:14:51,920
give it to the police or i'm gonna

2092
01:14:56,390 --> 01:14:54,320
give it to the local news station um

2093
01:14:58,950 --> 01:14:56,400
yeah i never really thought about how

2094
01:15:01,110 --> 01:14:58,960
how the times have changed and how uh

2095
01:15:03,350 --> 01:15:01,120
that fear of reporting things

2096
01:15:04,310 --> 01:15:03,360
has just been ingrained in people for so

2097
01:15:06,229 --> 01:15:04,320
long but

2098
01:15:07,910 --> 01:15:06,239
i don't know if it's the same for you in

2099
01:15:11,030 --> 01:15:07,920
the things you're looking into but

2100
01:15:12,950 --> 01:15:11,040
uh you know ever since this 2017 new

2101
01:15:16,229 --> 01:15:12,960
york times article came out

2102
01:15:18,790 --> 01:15:16,239
in um on ufos uh my

2103
01:15:20,630 --> 01:15:18,800
my email is just exploding like never

2104
01:15:22,470 --> 01:15:20,640
before and more and more people are

2105
01:15:24,149 --> 01:15:22,480
willing to come forward and talk about

2106
01:15:26,149 --> 01:15:24,159
this stuff than ever

2107
01:15:28,950 --> 01:15:26,159
before almost too much like i can't even

2108
01:15:29,750 --> 01:15:28,960
keep up with correspondence anymore so

2109
01:15:32,070 --> 01:15:29,760
um

2110
01:15:33,110 --> 01:15:32,080
yeah i i think i see things changing i

2111
01:15:35,110 --> 01:15:33,120
don't know if it's for the sa

2112
01:15:36,550 --> 01:15:35,120
the same for you when it comes to you

2113
01:15:38,310 --> 01:15:36,560
know the humanoid sightings and

2114
01:15:39,910 --> 01:15:38,320
everything you guys are doing but

2115
01:15:42,310 --> 01:15:39,920
yeah do you think the tides are turning

2116
01:15:48,229 --> 01:15:45,669
well i i think in in terms of uh

2117
01:15:50,229 --> 01:15:48,239
eroding the stigma around things like

2118
01:15:53,270 --> 01:15:50,239
ufo sightings yeah definitely um you

2119
01:15:56,550 --> 01:15:53,280
know and honestly um

2120
01:15:58,070 --> 01:15:56,560
you know we have investigated a lot of

2121
01:15:59,910 --> 01:15:58,080
winged humanoid sightings but you know

2122
01:16:01,830 --> 01:15:59,920
we get a lot of ufo sightings too

2123
01:16:03,350 --> 01:16:01,840
uh we get a lot of people contacting us

2124
01:16:06,070 --> 01:16:03,360
about ghosts and

2125
01:16:06,550 --> 01:16:06,080
and other cryptids uh you know bigfoot

2126
01:16:13,430 --> 01:16:06,560
and

2127
01:16:14,870 --> 01:16:13,440
ufo sightings i think that i don't know

2128
01:16:17,270 --> 01:16:14,880
that i've seen like

2129
01:16:20,310 --> 01:16:17,280
an increase necessarily it's i think

2130
01:16:23,189 --> 01:16:20,320
that's always been a more popular one

2131
01:16:23,910 --> 01:16:23,199
for people to to reach out you know uh

2132
01:16:27,030 --> 01:16:23,920
uh

2133
01:16:28,550 --> 01:16:27,040
to us about but at the same time i i do

2134
01:16:31,669 --> 01:16:28,560
see what you're saying and i do

2135
01:16:34,070 --> 01:16:31,679
think that there has been an increase

2136
01:16:35,350 --> 01:16:34,080
sort of across the board from from what

2137
01:16:39,189 --> 01:16:35,360
i've seen

2138
01:16:42,310 --> 01:16:39,199
uh uh in people willing to come forward

2139
01:16:43,669 --> 01:16:42,320
and actually speak of their experiences

2140
01:16:46,950 --> 01:16:43,679
you know i mean when you've got

2141
01:16:49,910 --> 01:16:46,960
um you know military pilots

2142
01:16:51,270 --> 01:16:49,920
and uh and politicians and stuff who are

2143
01:16:54,390 --> 01:16:51,280
willing to put their

2144
01:16:54,870 --> 01:16:54,400
face on television like publicly talking

2145
01:16:57,830 --> 01:16:54,880
about

2146
01:16:58,790 --> 01:16:57,840
like this subject that i think uh that

2147
01:17:02,550 --> 01:16:58,800
does a lot

2148
01:17:04,070 --> 01:17:02,560
uh in terms of making just you know your

2149
01:17:07,430 --> 01:17:04,080
your average citizen

2150
01:17:08,790 --> 01:17:07,440
a lot more comfortable in coming forward

2151
01:17:10,870 --> 01:17:08,800
with their their their own

2152
01:17:12,229 --> 01:17:10,880
experience which of course is is is

2153
01:17:15,030 --> 01:17:12,239
fantastic you know

2154
01:17:16,630 --> 01:17:15,040
we're probably just starting to see the

2155
01:17:19,669 --> 01:17:16,640
unraveling

2156
01:17:22,550 --> 01:17:19,679
of a lot of the the confusion

2157
01:17:22,950 --> 01:17:22,560
and harm caused by those those early air

2158
01:17:25,669 --> 01:17:22,960
force

2159
01:17:27,510 --> 01:17:25,679
programs you know designed to to debunk

2160
01:17:30,630 --> 01:17:27,520
and ridicule ufos and

2161
01:17:33,430 --> 01:17:30,640
and unfortunately ufo witnesses

2162
01:17:33,990 --> 01:17:33,440
yeah yeah and things seem to be changing

2163
01:17:36,709 --> 01:17:34,000
and

2164
01:17:37,830 --> 01:17:36,719
i hope that the rest of uh the

2165
01:17:40,070 --> 01:17:37,840
communities who

2166
01:17:41,669 --> 01:17:40,080
investigate these things uh we'll see a

2167
01:17:43,350 --> 01:17:41,679
change as well i think right now it

2168
01:17:45,430 --> 01:17:43,360
really is the time of

2169
01:17:46,709 --> 01:17:45,440
ufos and that's because it is in the

2170
01:17:49,510 --> 01:17:46,719
mainstream media

2171
01:17:50,070 --> 01:17:49,520
right now and it's being legitimized in

2172
01:17:53,669 --> 01:17:50,080
in

2173
01:17:56,790 --> 01:17:53,679
by by politicians by the military

2174
01:17:58,870 --> 01:17:56,800
and uh that's great um my hope is that

2175
01:18:00,550 --> 01:17:58,880
that will bleed over into the other

2176
01:18:03,030 --> 01:18:00,560
communities that do look into the

2177
01:18:05,669 --> 01:18:03,040
paranormal that do look into cryptids

2178
01:18:06,229 --> 01:18:05,679
um hopefully we'll get there i think you

2179
01:18:08,390 --> 01:18:06,239
know

2180
01:18:10,630 --> 01:18:08,400
a lot of people have asked me like okay

2181
01:18:11,189 --> 01:18:10,640
the government is saying ufos are real

2182
01:18:13,270 --> 01:18:11,199
that's

2183
01:18:14,790 --> 01:18:13,280
a huge step but what about the

2184
01:18:16,149 --> 01:18:14,800
abductions what about the close

2185
01:18:18,630 --> 01:18:16,159
encounters what about

2186
01:18:19,350 --> 01:18:18,640
um you know you you've even had reports

2187
01:18:21,830 --> 01:18:19,360
where

2188
01:18:23,270 --> 01:18:21,840
uh witnesses of ufo events have had phys

2189
01:18:26,070 --> 01:18:23,280
physiological

2190
01:18:28,070 --> 01:18:26,080
effects happen to them um what about

2191
01:18:31,030 --> 01:18:28,080
those people who've been burned by

2192
01:18:32,870 --> 01:18:31,040
you know radiation from these ufos as

2193
01:18:34,550 --> 01:18:32,880
well when will that become a part of the

2194
01:18:37,270 --> 01:18:34,560
conversation and i tell them

2195
01:18:38,709 --> 01:18:37,280
we'll get there we're not there yet but

2196
01:18:41,350 --> 01:18:38,719
we'll get there so

2197
01:18:42,870 --> 01:18:41,360
my hope is that yes one day it starts

2198
01:18:44,709 --> 01:18:42,880
with ufos exist

2199
01:18:46,630 --> 01:18:44,719
at least that's what the us government

2200
01:18:47,110 --> 01:18:46,640
is saying we forget there's a whole

2201
01:18:49,590 --> 01:18:47,120
world

2202
01:18:51,750 --> 01:18:49,600
out there as well with other governments

2203
01:18:54,070 --> 01:18:51,760
who are looking into these things too

2204
01:18:55,590 --> 01:18:54,080
but my hope is that one day we will get

2205
01:18:57,910 --> 01:18:55,600
to okay

2206
01:18:59,030 --> 01:18:57,920
where's our government program funding

2207
01:19:01,590 --> 01:18:59,040
for bigfoot

2208
01:19:03,669 --> 01:19:01,600
like let's go do that now you know um

2209
01:19:05,110 --> 01:19:03,679
right now it's ufos but maybe in the

2210
01:19:07,270 --> 01:19:05,120
future we'll get there i don't know what

2211
01:19:09,590 --> 01:19:07,280
do you think

2212
01:19:10,790 --> 01:19:09,600
oh sure well you know honestly they've

2213
01:19:12,870 --> 01:19:10,800
all had their time

2214
01:19:15,270 --> 01:19:12,880
um you know if you look at how bigfoot

2215
01:19:18,149 --> 01:19:15,280
was covered in in the 70s

2216
01:19:19,590 --> 01:19:18,159
uh you had a lot of uh you know sort of

2217
01:19:21,270 --> 01:19:19,600
credible scientists

2218
01:19:22,870 --> 01:19:21,280
you know look like looking into that

2219
01:19:24,870 --> 01:19:22,880
particular mystery

2220
01:19:25,990 --> 01:19:24,880
um you know ghosts have certainly had

2221
01:19:27,830 --> 01:19:26,000
had their heyday

2222
01:19:29,270 --> 01:19:27,840
uh you know beginning in the very early

2223
01:19:33,270 --> 01:19:29,280
aughts with

2224
01:19:35,910 --> 01:19:33,280
uh the the uh advent of

2225
01:19:38,070 --> 01:19:35,920
you know paranormal reality television

2226
01:19:41,030 --> 01:19:38,080
um and so i i think that there

2227
01:19:42,229 --> 01:19:41,040
are cycles uh that that we go through

2228
01:19:46,070 --> 01:19:42,239
like like anything

2229
01:19:48,709 --> 01:19:46,080
uh you know this is the ufo's moment

2230
01:19:50,070 --> 01:19:48,719
um and uh and for everybody interested

2231
01:19:53,030 --> 01:19:50,080
in ufos just

2232
01:19:55,270 --> 01:19:53,040
enjoy it and hopefully it'll it'll last

2233
01:19:55,910 --> 01:19:55,280
forever uh traditionally these things do

2234
01:19:59,590 --> 01:19:55,920
not

2235
01:20:01,910 --> 01:19:59,600
but yeah you know um this

2236
01:20:02,630 --> 01:20:01,920
eventually you know like it has to start

2237
01:20:05,669 --> 01:20:02,640
somewhere

2238
01:20:07,750 --> 01:20:05,679
so it might as well be here and uh and

2239
01:20:09,350 --> 01:20:07,760
hopefully yeah we can build on this and

2240
01:20:12,550 --> 01:20:09,360
and increase the

2241
01:20:14,870 --> 01:20:12,560
uh momentum of of interest in in all

2242
01:20:16,550 --> 01:20:14,880
in all kinds of weirdness and there are

2243
01:20:17,189 --> 01:20:16,560
still credible scientists that are

2244
01:20:19,830 --> 01:20:17,199
interested

2245
01:20:20,550 --> 01:20:19,840
in in in bigfoot i i didn't mean to like

2246
01:20:22,470 --> 01:20:20,560
imply that

2247
01:20:23,830 --> 01:20:22,480
that there aren't it didn't all end in

2248
01:20:26,629 --> 01:20:23,840
the 70s or anything

2249
01:20:27,590 --> 01:20:26,639
right but you know in in terms of like

2250
01:20:30,629 --> 01:20:27,600
sort of like the

2251
01:20:31,350 --> 01:20:30,639
the it paranormal phenomenon you know

2252
01:20:34,149 --> 01:20:31,360
like

2253
01:20:35,830 --> 01:20:34,159
there it is it it is secular and and

2254
01:20:36,790 --> 01:20:35,840
they sort of take turns and so it's it's

2255
01:20:39,510 --> 01:20:36,800
ufos turns

2256
01:20:41,590 --> 01:20:39,520
uh it's it's the ufo's turn right now

2257
01:20:43,750 --> 01:20:41,600
and uh quite deservedly so

2258
01:20:45,270 --> 01:20:43,760
and uh and i i hope you're right ryan i

2259
01:20:48,390 --> 01:20:45,280
i hope that uh

2260
01:20:51,910 --> 01:20:48,400
that this does lead to a more

2261
01:20:54,709 --> 01:20:51,920
mainstream interest in in these types of

2262
01:20:56,709 --> 01:20:54,719
subjects because one of honestly one of

2263
01:21:00,790 --> 01:20:56,719
the things i've learned if nothing else

2264
01:21:04,070 --> 01:21:00,800
is that there is no specific

2265
01:21:07,590 --> 01:21:04,080
uh type or socioeconomic class of

2266
01:21:10,629 --> 01:21:07,600
person that experiences this stuff it is

2267
01:21:13,430 --> 01:21:10,639
across every strata

2268
01:21:14,070 --> 01:21:13,440
of society and so you know like

2269
01:21:16,790 --> 01:21:14,080
literally

2270
01:21:17,590 --> 01:21:16,800
whatever people who aren't experiencers

2271
01:21:20,390 --> 01:21:17,600
or haven't met

2272
01:21:21,189 --> 01:21:20,400
experiencers are picturing in their head

2273
01:21:25,590 --> 01:21:21,199
of

2274
01:21:27,990 --> 01:21:25,600
experience this stuff

2275
01:21:29,750 --> 01:21:28,000
get rid of it because they could work in

2276
01:21:32,950 --> 01:21:29,760
your office they could go to your church

2277
01:21:35,830 --> 01:21:32,960
you would pass them at the grocery store

2278
01:21:37,110 --> 01:21:35,840
or or anywhere else walking down the

2279
01:21:37,910 --> 01:21:37,120
street and you wouldn't look at them

2280
01:21:40,070 --> 01:21:37,920
twice

2281
01:21:41,510 --> 01:21:40,080
because they are your they are your

2282
01:21:42,070 --> 01:21:41,520
friends they are your neighbors they are

2283
01:21:45,430 --> 01:21:42,080
your loved

2284
01:21:47,910 --> 01:21:45,440
ones and so i would hope

2285
01:21:49,350 --> 01:21:47,920
that that being the case we would

2286
01:21:51,990 --> 01:21:49,360
actually be able

2287
01:21:52,629 --> 01:21:52,000
to do these these people that we should

2288
01:21:56,310 --> 01:21:52,639
care about

2289
01:21:59,430 --> 01:21:56,320
the the service of of examining these

2290
01:22:02,070 --> 01:21:59,440
uh experiences seriously so

2291
01:22:03,350 --> 01:22:02,080
you know if if that's what this leads to

2292
01:22:05,590 --> 01:22:03,360
all the better

2293
01:22:08,070 --> 01:22:05,600
i love that man yeah like i always tell

2294
01:22:09,110 --> 01:22:08,080
people these topics bring us together

2295
01:22:11,189 --> 01:22:09,120
more than they

2296
01:22:12,470 --> 01:22:11,199
they pull us apart and in a world right

2297
01:22:15,270 --> 01:22:12,480
now divided

2298
01:22:16,070 --> 01:22:15,280
by so many different things in so many

2299
01:22:18,950 --> 01:22:16,080
different ways

2300
01:22:19,590 --> 01:22:18,960
uh i'm glad we can come together on one

2301
01:22:22,550 --> 01:22:19,600
thing

2302
01:22:23,669 --> 01:22:22,560
and that's what the hell is going on in

2303
01:22:26,390 --> 01:22:23,679
our skies

2304
01:22:27,189 --> 01:22:26,400
in our woods in our oceans with all this

2305
01:22:30,390 --> 01:22:27,199
weird

2306
01:22:33,189 --> 01:22:30,400
pioneers that's

2307
01:22:34,790 --> 01:22:33,199
really going out and asking the uh the

2308
01:22:37,430 --> 01:22:34,800
the more philosophical

2309
01:22:38,470 --> 01:22:37,440
and harder questions of these phenomena

2310
01:22:40,470 --> 01:22:38,480
you know not just

2311
01:22:41,830 --> 01:22:40,480
it's not just a disc in the sky it's not

2312
01:22:44,149 --> 01:22:41,840
just a um

2313
01:22:46,629 --> 01:22:44,159
missing link creature in the middle of

2314
01:22:48,470 --> 01:22:46,639
the woods it's probably a lot weirder

2315
01:22:49,669 --> 01:22:48,480
than that and i i highly respect the

2316
01:22:52,470 --> 01:22:49,679
work that you and

2317
01:22:54,070 --> 01:22:52,480
emily are doing in in terms of that so

2318
01:22:55,669 --> 01:22:54,080
kind of to wrap things up with you i

2319
01:22:56,070 --> 01:22:55,679
know we're going a little over the time

2320
01:23:06,070 --> 01:22:56,080
i

2321
01:23:08,550 --> 01:23:06,080
thank you thank you um what

2322
01:23:09,910 --> 01:23:08,560
what do you personally want out of all

2323
01:23:12,709 --> 01:23:09,920
this i love to know

2324
01:23:14,550 --> 01:23:12,719
you know yeah how you got involved um

2325
01:23:17,189 --> 01:23:14,560
but what has kept you

2326
01:23:18,790 --> 01:23:17,199
going and what do you want out of this

2327
01:23:20,229 --> 01:23:18,800
journey you're on you know i always tell

2328
01:23:21,669 --> 01:23:20,239
people for me

2329
01:23:23,830 --> 01:23:21,679
i don't think i'm ever gonna get the

2330
01:23:26,390 --> 01:23:23,840
answers to the ufo question

2331
01:23:28,470 --> 01:23:26,400
i saw one and i want to know what i saw

2332
01:23:30,790 --> 01:23:28,480
but i don't know if i ever will and

2333
01:23:31,590 --> 01:23:30,800
a big part of me actually is okay with

2334
01:23:34,470 --> 01:23:31,600
that but

2335
01:23:36,550 --> 01:23:34,480
i love to hear like what what do you

2336
01:23:39,189 --> 01:23:36,560
hope for do you want to know

2337
01:23:40,870 --> 01:23:39,199
what these winged humanoids are or uh

2338
01:23:42,709 --> 01:23:40,880
what ufos represent

2339
01:23:45,669 --> 01:23:42,719
or yeah what do you want out of this

2340
01:23:48,550 --> 01:23:45,679
journey you're taking in this lifetime

2341
01:23:48,950 --> 01:23:48,560
sure well i i think we all sort of want

2342
01:23:52,390 --> 01:23:48,960
those

2343
01:23:54,709 --> 01:23:52,400
right uh

2344
01:23:56,629 --> 01:23:54,719
in in terms of being realistic about it

2345
01:23:59,830 --> 01:23:56,639
you know everybody's sort of

2346
01:24:02,390 --> 01:23:59,840
after the the big d disclosure

2347
01:24:03,510 --> 01:24:02,400
um you know of experiencers large

2348
01:24:06,629 --> 01:24:03,520
largely are just

2349
01:24:09,910 --> 01:24:06,639
looking for closure in you know uh uh

2350
01:24:13,270 --> 01:24:09,920
in terms of of their own experiences um

2351
01:24:16,149 --> 01:24:13,280
but for me honestly uh

2352
01:24:18,550 --> 01:24:16,159
if i'm being realistic and and and this

2353
01:24:20,470 --> 01:24:18,560
is sort of my advice for for anyone who

2354
01:24:22,790 --> 01:24:20,480
is interested in these subjects

2355
01:24:25,990 --> 01:24:22,800
especially if you're interested in in

2356
01:24:26,550 --> 01:24:26,000
investigating them uh learn to love the

2357
01:24:29,830 --> 01:24:26,560
journey

2358
01:24:30,629 --> 01:24:29,840
frankly uh learn to marvel at the

2359
01:24:34,390 --> 01:24:30,639
mystery

2360
01:24:37,590 --> 01:24:34,400
of the universe and in our our tiny

2361
01:24:39,830 --> 01:24:37,600
tiny place in it um because

2362
01:24:40,790 --> 01:24:39,840
likely that that might be all you're

2363
01:24:43,590 --> 01:24:40,800
going to get

2364
01:24:43,990 --> 01:24:43,600
um don't be obsessed with this stuff you

2365
01:24:46,870 --> 01:24:44,000
can't

2366
01:24:47,990 --> 01:24:46,880
it's not worth it uh have other hobbies

2367
01:24:50,950 --> 01:24:48,000
start a family

2368
01:24:51,350 --> 01:24:50,960
uh volunteer in your community you know

2369
01:24:54,709 --> 01:24:51,360
do

2370
01:24:59,030 --> 01:24:54,719
anything else in your life too because

2371
01:25:02,229 --> 01:24:59,040
um again you know we're very very likely

2372
01:25:05,830 --> 01:25:02,239
uh to not necessarily have uh uh

2373
01:25:07,189 --> 01:25:05,840
any uh certainly not all of the answers

2374
01:25:09,590 --> 01:25:07,199
we're we're looking for

2375
01:25:11,189 --> 01:25:09,600
within in our lifetimes i mean many many

2376
01:25:14,310 --> 01:25:11,199
people have come before us

2377
01:25:15,910 --> 01:25:14,320
all sure that you know by the time

2378
01:25:18,310 --> 01:25:15,920
their life was over we would have these

2379
01:25:20,070 --> 01:25:18,320
mysteries solved and none of them so far

2380
01:25:23,510 --> 01:25:20,080
have been correct

2381
01:25:26,470 --> 01:25:23,520
so you really have to find your joy in

2382
01:25:28,070 --> 01:25:26,480
uh experiencing the investigation and

2383
01:25:30,229 --> 01:25:28,080
speaking with people and hearing their

2384
01:25:32,550 --> 01:25:30,239
stories and then sort of speculating

2385
01:25:34,390 --> 01:25:32,560
about what might be behind it it's uh

2386
01:25:37,590 --> 01:25:34,400
it's it's almost

2387
01:25:38,070 --> 01:25:37,600
um analogous to to religion in in that

2388
01:25:41,510 --> 01:25:38,080
way

2389
01:25:42,470 --> 01:25:41,520
in that i don't know that we have the

2390
01:25:45,030 --> 01:25:42,480
technology

2391
01:25:46,070 --> 01:25:45,040
necessary at this point to even properly

2392
01:25:48,229 --> 01:25:46,080
study this stuff

2393
01:25:49,830 --> 01:25:48,239
which means until that happens we're

2394
01:25:52,470 --> 01:25:49,840
always going to be in a position

2395
01:25:53,430 --> 01:25:52,480
of just having to observe it from afar

2396
01:25:55,590 --> 01:25:53,440
experience it

2397
01:25:57,189 --> 01:25:55,600
under circumstances over which we have

2398
01:26:00,550 --> 01:25:57,199
very little control

2399
01:26:02,950 --> 01:26:00,560
and uh and and just uh speculate

2400
01:26:04,149 --> 01:26:02,960
so learn to enjoy those aspects of it

2401
01:26:05,669 --> 01:26:04,159
and uh i

2402
01:26:09,110 --> 01:26:05,679
think you'll probably come out of this

2403
01:26:10,629 --> 01:26:09,120
scene um and that's uh that's what i'm

2404
01:26:13,669 --> 01:26:10,639
looking for

2405
01:26:15,590 --> 01:26:13,679
i love that yep embrace the strange it's

2406
01:26:18,629 --> 01:26:15,600
just gonna make your life a lot

2407
01:26:19,750 --> 01:26:18,639
more interesting and um look man

2408
01:26:22,149 --> 01:26:19,760
this has been an interesting

2409
01:26:23,030 --> 01:26:22,159
conversation i know we only scratch the

2410
01:26:25,830 --> 01:26:23,040
surface

2411
01:26:27,430 --> 01:26:25,840
of both of your books so i gotta ask

2412
01:26:28,709 --> 01:26:27,440
where can we find everything you and

2413
01:26:31,590 --> 01:26:28,719
emily are up to

2414
01:26:33,750 --> 01:26:31,600
and where can we find your books and

2415
01:26:37,669 --> 01:26:33,760
what comes next for you guys over there

2416
01:26:38,950 --> 01:26:37,679
at the uh singular 14 society

2417
01:26:40,629 --> 01:26:38,960
sure well if you're interested in

2418
01:26:41,830 --> 01:26:40,639
finding out more about what we do you

2419
01:26:44,229 --> 01:26:41,840
can go to our website

2420
01:26:45,669 --> 01:26:44,239
at singularfordian.com if you're

2421
01:26:47,110 --> 01:26:45,679
interested enough in what we're doing

2422
01:26:48,950 --> 01:26:47,120
that you want to be a part of it

2423
01:26:51,030 --> 01:26:48,960
then i encourage you to check us out at

2424
01:26:54,470 --> 01:26:51,040
patreon.com

2425
01:26:55,990 --> 01:26:54,480
now we have uh tears for any level of

2426
01:26:57,910 --> 01:26:56,000
interest or involvement in high

2427
01:26:59,750 --> 01:26:57,920
strangeness so you know if you like this

2428
01:27:02,390 --> 01:26:59,760
stuff i i would encourage you to

2429
01:27:04,709 --> 01:27:02,400
to take a look as far as the lake

2430
01:27:05,590 --> 01:27:04,719
michigan mothman and uh strange sales in

2431
01:27:07,590 --> 01:27:05,600
the impossible

2432
01:27:09,830 --> 01:27:07,600
they are both available for sale on

2433
01:27:11,750 --> 01:27:09,840
amazon we do have signed copies

2434
01:27:13,950 --> 01:27:11,760
available of the lake michigan mothman

2435
01:27:15,350 --> 01:27:13,960
through uh our website right now so

2436
01:27:19,270 --> 01:27:15,360
singularfordian.com

2437
01:27:20,950 --> 01:27:19,280
books uh we are going on uh uh vacation

2438
01:27:22,790 --> 01:27:20,960
from the seventh through the the

2439
01:27:24,229 --> 01:27:22,800
fourteenth and so we will have signed

2440
01:27:24,950 --> 01:27:24,239
copies of strange tales of the

2441
01:27:28,390 --> 01:27:24,960
impossible

2442
01:27:30,709 --> 01:27:28,400
uh in mid-august so look for those also

2443
01:27:33,189 --> 01:27:30,719
at singularfordian.com

2444
01:27:34,709 --> 01:27:33,199
books around then um another great way

2445
01:27:36,149 --> 01:27:34,719
to keep up with us is to follow us on

2446
01:27:38,470 --> 01:27:36,159
social media we are on

2447
01:27:40,629 --> 01:27:38,480
every social media platform that you

2448
01:27:40,950 --> 01:27:40,639
would expect a 41 year old man to be on

2449
01:27:44,070 --> 01:27:40,960
so

2450
01:27:46,709 --> 01:27:44,080
facebook and instagram and tumblr

2451
01:27:47,830 --> 01:27:46,719
and twitter we are on all of that stuff

2452
01:27:50,070 --> 01:27:47,840
uh so definitely check

2453
01:27:51,990 --> 01:27:50,080
us out there and uh you know we've got

2454
01:27:54,709 --> 01:27:52,000
more exciting stuff coming up

2455
01:27:56,310 --> 01:27:54,719
there's that small town monsters uh on

2456
01:27:58,149 --> 01:27:56,320
the trail of the lake michigan mothman

2457
01:28:00,470 --> 01:27:58,159
documentary that's coming out later this

2458
01:28:02,310 --> 01:28:00,480
year i think um

2459
01:28:04,709 --> 01:28:02,320
you know and we always have stuff that

2460
01:28:05,590 --> 01:28:04,719
we're working on who knows what'll like

2461
01:28:09,030 --> 01:28:05,600
what'll be next

2462
01:28:12,070 --> 01:28:09,040
but um i'm sure it'll be exciting

2463
01:28:13,990 --> 01:28:12,080
it always is man and to tease your

2464
01:28:16,070 --> 01:28:14,000
patreon i want to let my

2465
01:28:17,110 --> 01:28:16,080
listeners and viewers know that you and

2466
01:28:20,709 --> 01:28:17,120
emily actually did

2467
01:28:23,590 --> 01:28:20,719
a ce5 experiment which i'm

2468
01:28:24,870 --> 01:28:23,600
really interested to hear how that went

2469
01:28:27,270 --> 01:28:24,880
so please go

2470
01:28:27,990 --> 01:28:27,280
check out their patreon as well to see

2471
01:28:30,470 --> 01:28:28,000
how that all

2472
01:28:32,149 --> 01:28:30,480
turned out um but other than that tobias

2473
01:28:33,990 --> 01:28:32,159
i gotta thank you for giving me

2474
01:28:35,669 --> 01:28:34,000
your time today man and your insights

2475
01:28:39,030 --> 01:28:35,679
this has been very refreshing

2476
01:28:41,430 --> 01:28:39,040
for someone who only talks about ufos 24

2477
01:28:43,590 --> 01:28:41,440
7. so thank you so much for coming on

2478
01:28:45,510 --> 01:28:43,600
somewhere in the skies today

2479
01:28:46,709 --> 01:28:45,520
hey thank you so much ryan like this

2480
01:28:55,870 --> 01:28:46,719
this was a blast